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[New murli student] Why are harsh words e.g. "traitor" used?


VisionOfSelf User avatar
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If you are in God's company and you detract to go become part of the kingdom of "evil" (in other words perform sinful actions), it is as though one is switching their allegiances in a [spiritual] war, and thus can be called a traitor.

Is the intent (of the usage of the word "traitor") to deepen one's realization, so that at the end one cannot say they did not kwow? Anyone bothered by this usage?

I've more to add but would like to see what others have to say about this...

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VisionOfSelf wrote:
Anyone bothered by this usage?


Yes, I'm bothered by it. It is inappropriate and counter-productive. I don't care who said it. I know that statements like this both cause unnecessary hurt to people directly or are used as a justification for holding prejudice against others who leave the BKs.

It was not the brightest thing to have said and a lot of the anti-BK sentiment we see today is the natural karmic return of having alienated and insulted BKs who have departed.

There is a reason why the word "traitor" is not used in Avyakt murlis. It is because it belonged at a time when Brahma Baba's was playing his imperfect role.


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There is a reason why the word "traitor" is not used in Avyakt murlis. It is because it belonged at a time when Brahma Baba's was playing his imperfect role.


No. Why? It is said that whatever is said in the murli we have to consider it Shivbaba speaking. Avyakt it does not mean perfect, it means with subtle body, the perfect stage is the deity, angel is the transitive stage.

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saligram wrote:
No. Why? It is said that whatever is said in the murli we have to consider it Shivbaba speaking. Avyakt it does not mean perfect, it means with subtle body, the perfect stage is the deity, angel is the transitive stage.


OK, consider this. There were various times when Baba told everyone to destroy all their notes because the knowledge before that time was obsolete. The last such time was during the early 60s. If you look at what did survive before that time then it is substantially different from what we know as the murli now.

Why would Baba tell people to destroy their notes if it was always Shiv Baba speaking?

When questioned about about Shiv Baba speaking and changes between old and new murlis etc, Mama explained that whatever is in the murli now supersedes whatever was past. As in, it applies to the present tense.

Shiv Baba has said that he will correct any mistake Brahma Baba makes. How does he do this? In newer murlis. By hanging on to the old murlis where what is said is either offensive to groups of people or differs from content/style/approach of avyakt murlis we are actually frustrating Shiv Baba's intention to put things right.


I think we all know intuitively what the true nature of God is. The big leveler is, would God really say something like that? Is it really in his nature? Would he really call his own children traitors? Would he ever curse them or condemn them? Has anyone ever had a near-death experience, traveled along the tunnel to the light and found a harsh God that condemned them in any way?


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We all have and have had some ideas about god and everyone has, but not always these reflect the idea in gyan, but most often they contradict it. It is a revolutionary knowledge. If instead of changing our perceptions about God we choose to stick to them we become non-receptive.

God neither punishes nor gives happiness, but he gives knowledge. He is called benefactor. A father would definitely scold his child if it is mischevious and this will bring a positive result. On the other side without this the child with a loose end will end up becoming degraded.

For the murlis it is said that they should be revised, it is not said that they should be destroyed. In the same way whatever a poet has written many years ago, read today has the same effect. Such classics transcendent time and are always actual.

If there would be change and refining in knowledge this is not a problem. The problem arises of how it happens. Take for example this case of the word traitor word. You say we should omit it someone else will say keep it, what will we do. Who can decide. When there is one opinion, when Baba has been practically present it used to be clear where could one seek advice, because there is the responsibility of Shivbaba. It is said that by mixing our own mind there is loss, there is benefit only in shrimat. The matter is that. What is shrimat? If something is said in the murli and this is considered shrimat, and if something else says something contrary to this then the other thing should be shrimat. One is confused. Finally what is shrimat, if not the words of one in the murli. I know that the directions of the seniors are also regarded as shrimat, but i don't agree with this. God is one, shrimat means one direction. In every other direction there will be mixture, this will bring us to downfall.

Only one will uplift us, all the rest will corrupt us and this one is the supreme soul. He used to be there present in Brahma Baba, but the only way to recognize this used to have been through the knowledge that isspoken. If you take away the knowledge you take away the recognition of the father. How will we recognize that the supreme soul is working through someone else, like for eg. a senior, editing the murl? It cannot be through claims. The only way is through the knowledge that is given, that noone else can know and give such knowledge.

Something else is the practical matter, because knowledge can also be given through actions. Our mind, words and actions all are connected with the knwoeldge and it is not only a matter of speaking. There can be such actions that through such actions the supreme soul becomes obvious, but also such actions through which the supreme soul becomes hidden. Taking away the murli is like taking away the murlidhar.

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saligram wrote:
A father would definitely scold his child if it is mischevious and this will bring a positive result


To scold is an act of anger. This is not a characteristic that befits God. Also who is he "scolding" by using the term "traitor". Those that have left. Did have a positive result? Ask them.

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bksimonb wrote:
saligram wrote:
A father would definitely scold his child if it is mischevious and this will bring a positive result


To scold is an act of anger. This is not a characteristic that befits God. Also who is he "scolding" by using the term "traitor". Those that have left. Did have a positive result? Ask them.

Saligram...I agree with you. Simon...I agree with you. After I agree with you both, I totally have to agree with Baba for using those words then and not using them now, which gave us a Saligram and a Simon.

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What about the concept of a COACH who is trying to free you from maya/Ravan (vices) as in the mythical battle of Ramayana?
Yes would not work with every trainee, but what if it works on some?

By the way the tone in the English murli sounds rather stern whereas in Hindi I'd think it seems more like an explanation

Those who leave one kingdom and go to another are called traitors.
The Father says: Those who belong to Me and then belong to Maya are also called
traitors. Their activity becomes like that. The Father has now come to liberate you from Maya

...
There are evil spirits in everyone. Until you reach your karmateet stage, the criminal eye won't leave you alone. The greatest enemy is lust. So many fall. Baba repeatedly explains: You mustn't remember any bodily beings; no one except Shiv Baba. Some are so firm that they never remember anyone else. A very faithful wife would not have an impure intellect.


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I agree that there can be some mistakes from Bbaba (even murli says so). But, I do not believe harsh words are spoken by Bababa. BBaba cannot speak such words, as Shivbaba had said that you follow footsteps of BBaba. Now, even if such words are spoken by BBaba, then I feel they were not wrong as they are for internal matters (or he is also father to us, so may be he also gets right to speak so). For understanding the situation or drama, and not to speak to them openly.

Post No. 65 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=14733#p14733

There is a murli point saying- "BBaba cannot give sorrow to anyone, if he gives, how can he get the title Big Mother?"

There are lots of warnings in murlis.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


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