Board index BK Section (BKs & New BK students only please) Murli Points Discussion Mul-vatan does not vacate How ?

Mul-vatan does not vacate How ?


Post Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:56 am

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Om Shanti

Dear Divine Sisters and Brothers,

In Today’s Murli (dt.21/04/2016) Sweet Baba said

जैसे यह साकारी वतन है वैसे ही मूलवतन है। वतन कभी खाली नहीं होता, न यह न वह।


I understand that corporeal world does not become vacant. 18-20 lakhs population shall remain here after mass destruction to give birth initial 9 lakhs pure souls and they shall go to paramdham within 30 years. On the 1st day of Satyug ie. 1/1/1, there shall be no impure body.

However I do not understand the case of mul-vatan / paramdham. We all know that every soul has to take part in this world drama. And the gate of mukti-dham shall open after mass destruction. All the souls shall go home via dharmraj-puri / sukhm-vatan along with Shiv baba and Brahma Baba. So it implies that all the souls should descend to corporeal world except supreme soul before mass destruction.

My knowledgeable sisters and brothers are requested to reply how the mul-vatan is not vacated. Do you mean that only supreme soul shall be there and that’s why sweet Baba told in this way?

Regards
BK Atulya

Post Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:40 am

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It is said that the doors of shantidham and sukhdham opens simultaneously, it means there must be souls entering both ways. Whilst some souls might take time to leave body consciousness and reach shantidham and stay there , some souls may go there in a second and go back in a second and enter sukhdham. When souls go to shantidham, those souls who have already been there and returned will be the ones who will be left in this world.

And when the gates open, there might be some souls who will be still left there in mulvatan. When the souls who go back first reach paramdham, these last souls will also come on earth, so it does not stay empty. And once going back has commenced, after the first souls who reach Paramdham, there will be more souls coming. In the same way as this world fills up with souls gradually, mulvatan will also fill up with souls gradually, but very quickly.

Post Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:18 am

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Om Shanti

Thanks to brother Saligram for the reply.

Awaiting for any other logical reply.

Regards
BK Atulya

Post Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:24 am

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जैसे यह साकारी वतन है वैसे ही मूलवतन है। वतन कभी खाली नहीं होता, न यह न वह। - Murli (dt.21/04/2016)

Not sure whether the murli point is said in literal sense. Because Baba sometimes says approximately.

1)If it is approximate, then there is no question of doubt.

2)If it is literally correct, then one possibility is- Deity souls will first goto Paramdham after the last bell rings.

a)First B Baba will return (with the top souls. ) . [Some souls may be there still yet to descend. ]

b)B Baba will stay in Paramdham for few period, say 2 to 5 years.

And, then he takes birth as Krishna. Still impure souls would be there in Corporeal vatan.

c)By (practical) 1/1/1, all the impure souls would have been returned.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Post Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:35 am

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Om Shanti
Dear Divine Sisters and Brothers,

Brother mbbhat writes :-
2)If it is literally correct, then one possibility is- Deity souls will first goto Paramdham after the last bell rings.

a)First B Baba will return (with the top souls. ) . [Some souls may be there still yet to descend. ]

b)B Baba will stay in Paramdham for few period, say 2 to 5 years.


Most beloved Baba has told us that all the souls shall return home via Sukhm vatan / Dharm Rajpuri. Shiv baba and top 8 (astha rattan) shall be present as bench of judges (tribunal).

As per my understanding after that only all the souls along with Baba should enter Paramdham.

Do you mean to say that before the time of dharmrajpuri, Brahma Baba with deity souls shall enter paramdham and Brahma Baba and top 8 shall come back to sukhm vatan for performing the task of Dharmrajpuri ?

But except top 8, all other deity souls have to get some punishment. So there would be dharmrajpuri twice, first for deity souls and next time for other souls.

Is there any possibility like this ?

Thanks for the reply
Regards
BK Atulya

Post Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:36 pm

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Most beloved Baba has told us that all the souls shall return home via Sukhm vatan / Dharm Rajpuri. Shiv baba and top 8 (astha rattan) shall be present as bench of judges (tribunal).

This is a point which I had not taken into account. But, I believe there is no need of the bench of judges. The punishment can be automatic. Baba says- even in garbh jail, child gets punishment. It realizes its mistake and begs God/Dharmaraj.

Baba has also said- vision will be given first, and then the punishment. When vision is given, what is the need of the bench of judges? Also- is there need of 8 judges to pass the judgement?

Regarding Dharmaraj, Post No. 138 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=12552&hilit=Dharmaraj#p12552

Again Post No. 59 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=8771&hilit=roshni#p8771

So, I believe such bench would not exist physically, [but, other souls may get vision of the bench, so it is as good as REAL for them].
Mu Point:- Kalyaanakaari hee vinaashkaari ban saktey hain. = Those who become benefactor, they only can become destroyers.
For example, in lowkik, a teacher only has the right to evaluate(vinaashakaari = judge) the marks of a student. A teacher had definitely played role of a benefactor (he/she had given teachings earlier), then only the teacher can give exam questions.


So, what I think is- those who are law makers, they only can pass the judgement. I believe the top 8 souls may become nimitt for the creation of laws later in drama. Not only that Baba says- when your effort reaches karmaateet stage, the final bell rings. Similarly, due to the stage of the top 8 souls, the passing of judgments takes place automatically*.

* - See Baba says- the karobaar of subtle world takes place (AUTOMATICALLY) by positive thoughts. See murli point No. 02 in Post No. 170 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=14353&hilit=kaarobaar#p14353
As per my understanding after that only all the souls along with Baba should enter Paramdham.

Due to the above explanation, there is no need of physical sitting. It would look awkward if God and others physically sit and give judgement. Also- how much time would it take to pass judgement to all those great sinners- one after the one?
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Post Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:15 pm

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It is also said that it is not that the soul is punished, it repents and this repentance is like punishment.

Post Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:46 pm

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Om Shanti
Dear Divine Sisters and Brothers,

Brother mbbhat writes :- I believe there is no need of the bench of judges. The punishment can be automatic. Baba says- even in garbh jail, child gets punishment. It realizes its mistake and begs God/Dharmaraj. there is no need of physical sitting. It would look awkward if God and others physically sit and give judgement. Also- how much time would it take to pass judgement to all those great sinners- one after the one?


S.M. dt,14/04/2016, 2nd page may be referred :- बाप कहते हैं मेरे साथ धर्मराज सदैव है ही हैं, द्वापर से लेकर I सतयुग त्रेता में मेरे साथ धर्मराज नहीं रहता I
So there is no confusion in who is dharmraj? It is one role of our loving Shiv Baba only. Because Brahma Baba will not be with Shiv Baba in Dwapar yug.

Yes, Soul gets punishment in garbh jail. Soul also gets punishment after taking birth through various type of pain and sorrows in life and also while leaving body. We can say it a automatic process, drama etc.

But in the above process of punishments there is no vision (साक्षात्कार) of sins committed by the soul. If we say that there is vision (साक्षात्कार) of sins in garbh jail, then we should not say that it is automatic. Because we know that the only authority of vision (साक्षात्कार) is our loving Shiv Baba.

If we accept that soul gets punishment in garbh jail with vision (साक्षात्कार), since this is our last birth, there would be no garbh jail further. Do you think that during the process of death / maha vinas, there would be vision (साक्षात्कार) and final punishment?

Further most loving Baba has said that we shall return home via Sukhm vatan. If the karmic account is finished here only through punishment, then there is no need to go via Sukhm Vatan.

I remember that most beloved Baba has said that there shall be tribunal and after vision (साक्षात्कार) punishment will be given. Describing the punishment, sweet Baba has said that it will be of minutes but the soul shall feel it as long time. (murli reference is not in hand)

I have listened from our Dadi Ratanmohiniji that during initial period at Karachi, Baba has also shown Dharmrajpuri through vision.

So I believe that there shall be tribunal at subtle world / dharmrajpuri, souls will get punishment through subtle body with vision.

If there would be no dharmrajpuri in subtle world, then how and when the majority souls shall get final punishment for their sins during the period of mass destruction ? And why return journey via subtle world ?

Regards
BK Atulya

Post Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:06 pm

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S.M. dt,14/04/2016, 2nd page may be referred :- बाप कहते हैं मेरे साथ धर्मराज सदैव है ही हैं, द्वापर से लेकर I सतयुग त्रेता में मेरे साथ धर्मराज नहीं रहता I
So there is no confusion in who is dharmraj? It is one role of our loving Shiv Baba only. Because Brahma Baba will not be with Shiv Baba in Dwapar yug.

Even in bhaktimarg, people get visions of deities. (Baba may be be giving those visions or few may be automatic- yet to know).
Can it be said- Shivbaba plays the role of deities there? We can just say- "Shivbaba makes it happen so= Shivbaba gives the vision of deities". Does that imply there are no deities at all? No. Why does ShivBaba gives vision of dieties in bhaktimarg, even when deities do not exist during that period?
Because deities actually played their roles as deities at some other time, is it not? So, the top 8 souls also would be instrumental in playing role of Dharmaraj (lawmakers) at some other times.

The point is- Since their life is like PERFECT MIRROR IN ALL RESPECTS to others, their stage may create such an atmosphere to implement role of Dharmaraj.

Baba says- Goddess of knowledge is saraswathi. We can see statues of saraswathi kept in many lowkik universities which teach material knowledge. Did saraswathi taught material knowledge of spiritual? She taught only spiritual, is it not? But, even then her place is put there. Mostly because spiritual knowledge is superior to it.

Similarly, the double crowned Kings are much superior to the single crowned Kings, and baba also says- the single crowned Kings worship the double crowned Kings. So, automatically the superior ones get that title. Of course, every King or politician is hadh kaa Dharmaraj (like Baba says- every lowkik father as hadh ka Brahma).
If we say that there is vision (साक्षात्कार) of sins in garbh jail, then we should not say that it is automatic. Because we know that the only authority of vision (साक्षात्कार) is our loving Shiv Baba.

For example, we get dreams. Are they not automatic? Similarly, I believe some visions may be automatic. But, I have already said- I am not fully sure about it, because difficult to judge.

See here- Post No. 169- viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=14352&hilit=haath#p14352. Even though baba once says- I fulfill visions of others, still baba says- it happens as per drama. There is another murli point which says so even more explicitly , as "I do not do anything, it just happens as per drama". If I get, I will put them.
If we accept that soul gets punishment in garbh jail with vision (साक्षात्कार), since this is our last birth, there would be no garbh jail further.

No need. A part of sin only gets cleared. Even in kashi kulvat, baba says- only a part of the sin gets cleared.

Baba also says- I give fruit even during bhaktimarg. Does it mean since Baba gives fruit during bhaktimarg, there is no need for him to descend in Conf. Age?

There are limited/bhakti fruits and unlimited/gyaan. Similarly, the final visions would be special.
I remember that most beloved Baba has said that there shall be tribunal and after vision (साक्षात्कार)

Yes, I have read this murli point. The tribunal is for the great sinners, not for everyone. So, for some souls, there could be physical sitting. I do not deny it. But, still not sure- how exactly it would be.
I have listened from our Dadi Ratanmohiniji that during initial period at Karachi, Baba has also shown Dharmrajpuri through vision.

During trance messages, Baba emerges so many scenes. Are all of them really real?
In few trance messages, Baba has shown chit- chat between Dadi Prakashmani and the advance party souls like Mamma. You may be knowing this.
Dadi prakashmani is in BKWSU, but mamma totally at different place. How can there be any chit-chat between them? But, baba emerges those scenes during trance, to educate children, is it not?
If there would be no dharmrajpuri in subtle world, then how and when the majority souls shall get final punishment for their sins during the period of mass destruction ? And why return journey via subtle world ?

I did not say there is absolutely No.
I believe it need not be so rigid. It may be flexible. To give punishment, there is no need to take subtle body to subtle world. Vision can be given to subtle personalities even while they all being in this world. But, the experience for anyone - either by vision, or by dream, or by actual being in subtle world- all are very similar, as if they are triggered from subtle world.

Is Subtle world pure or impure? If it is pure world (usually baba says so, is it not? Baba usually says- when you become pure, you will become farista, and go to subtle world), in that view, no subtle personalities will be able to reach there to get punishment.
Of course, the dharmaraj souls may become instrument to give visions to others while sitting there and the others feeling they are connected to the subtle world. So, in that view, baba might had said- return journey through subtle world. And- it is also right. Because we have to pass through subtle world before reaching paramdham. It is physically in between, is it not?

There are lots of murli points regarding subtle world, etc. Better consider all of them. For example- post No. 50 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&start=50
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Post Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:12 pm

Posts: 142
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Om Shanti
Dear Divine Sisters and Brothers,

Yesterday’s murli (dt.25/04/2016) may be referred to be confirmed about the existence of dharmrajpuri and its punishment.

“वहाँ धर्मराज की भी दरकार नहीं होती है। न गर्भ जेल में सजा, न धर्मराजपुरी की सजा मिलती है। गर्भ महल में बहुत सुखी रहते हैं। यहाँ तो गर्भ जेल में सजायें खानी पड़ती हैं।“

Regards
BK Atulya


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