Board index BK Section (BKs & New BK students only please) Murli Points Discussion Questions and Answers-exploring the depth ..

Questions and Answers-exploring the depth ..



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AUGUST 27, 2012
Avyakt
Question: Hello, inspite of knowing that we have to practise a lot and give more time for Yoga, most of us travel thru BK life without practise and experience .It seems it is not possible to be that point (Soul conscious) .Remembering Dadiji (just know her little for some years)on her smriti day was more easy and flow of light ,energy was happening why this is lacking when we sit to remember Shivbaba. Please give your understanding.
Thank you for your honest question!

Remembrance is one of those points which have many different perspectives.
Let me share my own experience in my BK life; not as an example to follow, but just to have a different perspective.

I started in BK life remembering the point. Looked at ShivBaba’s picture and one good day, “tears of love” came up and I had my first “good experience.” Then, that wasn’t working anymore but I realized that it was my lack of “feelings,” that were hindering me and I recall practicing with ShivBaba’s picture on how to emerge feelings from the heart, until it came out with lots of other emotional baggage in it.

Then as I needed something “new,” the image of BapDada replaced that. This time I could feel that energy coming from Baba’s eyes. It was beautiful.It made me feel as if I was his “wife.” Then I became “ShivBaba’s wife,” but again, that wore off after sometime and I started looking for newness. The idea of remembering a point of light by visualizing it all the time, was a bit futile because there was no experience for me of anything, and at the same time my mind needed to be free for other tasks. I have tried different things and like you explained, looking at Baba’s picture seemed the one option which brought more loving and fulfilling experiences. However, I noticed that my heart needed to be open, the feelings flowing freely for the experience to happen. If my thoughts were bothering me with further thoughts, the experience of feelings weren’t there.

Sitting in meditation without feelings is just like passing time (listening to nice meditation music) UNLESS, you concentrate by pointing your thoughts on something.
which is still from Baba’s Murli (Note: is not my own “manmat.”) but from an AVYAKT murli.

I discovered that I am the one producing those feelings and that I need to have the heart open for the experience to happen. Those pictures are like “helpers” for the feelings to flow. By using concentration on the “dot” according to the article explanation, I am able to create a shelter in my mind, a protection if you would, which is powerful to create my own atmosphere and to keep focused on something.

That remembrance brings the experience of “I” the soul first, which is “who I am,” then a loving connection could be opened with God or even with Nature (this morning I had a beautiful experience with Nature, “pure love from the heart and eyes”) or others.
This is my take on remembrance. It is an ongoing discovery.

Now to answer to your question:
Similarly you feel more connected with your feelings with a human being (Dadi ji) than with a point of light.
Specially if you have watched that human interacting with others. Love was created, therefore, you remember that memory with love. With the point is not the same unless you spontaneously have developed that love based on your understanding of gyan rather than the physical/avyakt experience of knowing someone.

Many have had the experience of “supreme love” with the point of light, but if they are able to have that on a daily basis, they would be karmateet in no time. Those experiences are unique and are meant to “hook you” in the discovery of the self or your spiritual path. That is how Baba “gets BKs” without having to convince anyone..

If you have an experience the way you are remembering, that is great. Keep at it until is not working for you. Then change to something else, BapDada’s picture perhaps. At the end, Love has to flow easily in you, without pictures.

One more time, what I have discovered is that the aim is to”clean” our loving energy, so the feelings are purified and become easy to express. That love which is coming from you, has healing energy and when you focus your energy in the inner self (soul) you will experience changes in the self.

The soul is latent and waiting to wake up. Remembrance and experience of those qualities will do it.
The aim of yoga in my experience so far, is to “wake us up” into who we are.

Best wishes!
Last edited by hope on Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


Posts: 3029
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AUGUST 31, 2012
Avyakt 7
The “boiling frog” story of “free will vs. predestination”
As I was appreciating dawn through a window, the thought of predestination and free will came to my mind. Then, I stopped looking.
I wanted to be able to explain those concepts in less than one page of blah blah blah writing and show that those ‘opposites’ are not real. Reality is always in the ways of Nature, however; our perception of it is different in a “numberwise” way.

Dawn is that precious moment when the dark night becomes light again. There is no way to say when “exactly night time finishes and when daylight starts.” As a matter of fact, to ask that question clearly shows our degree of disconnection from Nature and our reliance on time by looking at a watch and believing that to be the true thing.

Predestination is like night changing into day. It will happen. There is no way to stop that, neither the other way around, which is day changing into night. There is a cycle. Everything is cyclical in Nature and that is predestined, for in that movement, there is “recycling” going which self-preserves the physical world.

Free will is like “being aware of the degrees of changes when night changes into day.” A nice concept.
Now, this is hard to follow. Try it. See if you are able to perceive every change in degrees until you see full daylight. This is why even though individuals like to talk about “free will,” reality is that many times, we are not aware enough to perceive changes and act appropriately, but rather we react on the “extreme” and that usually is too late.
The “boiling frog” metaphor becomes true here. That is, we are not “awake” enough to perceive important gradual changes.

On the other hand, if we just stop looking at the sky for 15 seconds and go back into looking at it again, we will see a change without a doubt. Memory of the past “kicks in” and compares. Seeing has stopped.

Most individuals do not even realize the cycle of day and night. They just go with it and react on one extreme. That is why for all practical purposes, there is no free will.

Someone may say:” look I want to raise my hand, and I am raising it, that is free will.”
Wrong. You did not create that thought from scratch. It came to you from previous experiences. Everything we think is related with previous experiences, even if I think of a “flying pig” that is putting together two experiences into one. A computer can do that as well. Nothing original. No volition involved.

The paradox of this awareness of Dawn is that we can only truly see, when there is no thought in us. When we are absorbed in what is. That is awareness.

That state cannot be called ‘free will,’ for there is no “I” thinking and looking at things. Without “I” there is no free will, neither predestination. That problem of “free will vs. predestination” only arises when there is an “I,” ego, running the show… and paradoxically, that ego is not “real.”
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


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MARCH 22, 2012
The vice of lust
The A reader asked: "When do we exactly know that we have become conqueror over the vice of lust?" Answer:
The vice of lust has many layers. The one which Baba usually refers to is “sex-lust.” The other sides of lust are usually related with every sense organ. For instance, gluttony is lust of the sense of taste which could be combined with greed.

Sex-lust is the most obvious, the “gross” aspect of lust. The other ones could become pretty subtle.

Conquering EGO is the sure way of killing all vices at once. Ego is very subtle.

The vices = EGO.

When the vices are looked at from the perspective of our relationship with others, the different names appear such as greed, anger, attachment, and lust.

Therefore, we will know that we have conquered a vice when there is no EGO. Otherwise, the vice may be there but in lower “doses.”

That is why Baba mentions that “we will conquer Maya, at the end….”

So you are right, It is a process of purification. We need to respect that process and move with it.

Timing is essential.
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


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MARCH 26, 2012
Theoretical Gyan in a page
The main point is that we are eternal beings and everything is eternal. The body perishes (matter change arrangement ) but “I” continue someplace, somewhere (reincarnation.)

Because we are eternal beings, aka “souls, “we cannot be created neither destroyed.”

Because I continue, “I” should be somewhere. Where?

Here is where the cycle of time and the law of action and reaction come.

Eternity in time cannot be linear because there is a beginning in linear time. Eternity in time has to be cyclical because in a circle, in a cycle; there is no beginning. Time appears to “move,” (past-present-future) that movement is repetitive because once a cycle is completed, it must repeat again for “everything is eternal,” nothing can be destroyed not even a moment in time. It is recurrent.

Things manifests in time due to a preordained “cause and effect.” (law of karma) This predestined script assures that things will repeat. Therefore, the basic premise of Raja Yoga gyan, that “everything is eternal” still holds true.

“Everything is eternal but there are changes in time which eventually, lead to become the same again,” is the slogan.

Actions are not inherently “good or bad,” they are just necessary. In life, we express a role and experience roles (others and ours.) There is the perception of duality. Duality assures “movement” in this “movie” of life, it assures that the movie will not be a still picture. Thus, life is movement and that movement is repetitive because it is eternal.

Therefore, repetition assures movement and that movement assures “newness.” That “newness” paradoxically is the same repeated script…The experience of those degrees of “newness” assured by duality are experienced by every soul according to their capacity. No soul is equal in capacity. That capacity of a soul to withstand duality determines the number of experiences in time. There is no lifetime lasting the whole cycle; therefore, there is reincarnation.

To know in depth the concepts of time, soul, reincarnation, cause and effect and repetition of the Drama (cycle) and how they are related and not separated is a good way to explain gyan in a logical way for “logical minds.”
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


Posts: 3029
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SEPTEMBER 30, 2012
Question: Om Shanti. As baba says that Be a karmayogi because most of our time goes in that.. So i want to ask here that when we are doing such works where intellect is involved like thinking about a project and working on it the whole day.. In that scenario, how can we be in constant remembrance of loving baba… We could take breaks in between for some time, doing traffic control but while doing karma how can we with baba?
Dear soul,
Thank you for your question! It has helped me realize some things.
I will share my experience.
My experience is not “the answer,” but just my experience in figuring out the “ins” and “outs” of remembrance in my “numberwise,” manner.

In our Brahmin life we start out with Raja yoga sitting meditation. We may have many experiences with Baba or not, but what we get out of it is a “special feeling.” There are many names for that energy felt; bliss, peace, happiness, etc. We associate those feelings with the experience and may say that “Baba has given me that experience.” Then we sit in meditation while looking at the “point of light,” and we think that remembering Baba is to remember the point of light or the picture of Brahma Baba. We may get experiences with Baba in the subtle region or some “out of the world, “Godly-wood” like performance,” going on in the screen of our minds. That is good.
Excellent; BUT…. that is not soul consciousness.

Granted, there may have been experiences which gave us a glimpse into soul consciousness, we even felt it… BUT, those experiences we cannot bring to “life” at will.. so we are hungry for “more experiences,” rather than “making the effort,” to become soul conscious.

The important part to me out of those experiences are the feelings, because those feelings are not “corporeal ones.” That is probably the first experience of what could be called “soul energy.”

Baba cannot “give us” anything which we do not deserve (through the law of karma) AND what we deserve is already in us. The Golden age is already in those souls belonging to the Golden age, see?

Therefore, the experiences that we have with sweet Baba, are meant to trigger that soul awareness in us in a numberwise way; as we know.

In other words, God consciousness, triggers soul consciousness. That is the BK method.

Once we have experienced the awareness of the soul through meditations and we are in tune with that feeling, being in that state; is remembering the Father, why? Because the Father is a soul. We remember Baba so we can remember our “true” nature. Once that “true” nature is “natural,” we become like “deities,” self sovereign, self-aware beings, soul conscious.

Once we are in that awareness of soul consciousness and we know how it is; THEN, we can speak about “Karma yoga.”
Here is when the “real effort starts,” because anything from the outside will take us away from that experience. It will be distracting. That is “Maya.”

Even our thoughts will bring us to the past so we could be transported into sorrow, or will anticipate the future, so we can live in “fantasy world ” to avoid being in the “now.” Being in the now is soul consciousness. Being away from time; is soul consciousness.

To bring that awareness in everyday tasks, is karma yoga. That is how we remember “sweet Baba,” by being soul conscious; and here is where the effort resides, while “walking and moving around.”

Please see that there is no way to remember with our minds a point of light and perform different tasks such as driving a car while eating a banana and listening to music at the same time. There is no heart, no feelings in that unless you sit down in tranquility and make it happen. However, if you bring the awareness of the “feeling of soul consciousness” you can do all of those tasks while in that “awareness.”

Karma yoga, is where effort resides and that effort is to be AWARE of the soul.

Best wishes
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


Posts: 3029
Link with BKs: BK
MARCH 27, 2013
Question: Dear brother, With your current article, If I realize it correctly, the true spirituality depends not on praising the trainer who has taught us how to swim, but rather using that teaching to swim, become a good swimmer, while learning to swim , there might be some help needed from the trainer, but at the end what matters is to be able to learn the art of swimming and be without any dependency. Here, swimming could be substituted for soul conscious, spirituality or enlightenment or karmateet stage after all these are just labels. Your thoughts?
Dear soul,

Thank you for your feedback.
In fact, that is the message. However, it is not that “this brother is sharing his own manmat.” Rather, BapDada has mentioned that as well in avyakt Murlis: “Be equal to the Father.” “To have thoughts of the original self means to bring about transformation.”( Avyakt Murli, March 18, 2012.)

It is not about knowing in theory how to swim or how to praise the “trainer” or coach. It is about swimming, and eventually to swim without a coach as you mentioned. That is to be “equal to the trainer.”

As we are seeing there are many labels for the same “stage of being.” Such as: “karmateet,” “detached observer,” “the witness,” a “trustee,” “Being merged with the Father,” “having all relationships with the Father,” “enlightened,” “self-realized,” etc, etc, etc. Once we realize that the “coach” or trainer is not interested in my praise, is not interested in anything from me; we are free to find that “self.” BapDada in the role of the Father, treats us like little children. However, let us see that a little child cannot be “equal to the Father,” although is required to be a child in order to grow. That is the paradox.

The path is there waiting for us: praising, talking, singing and chanting or having devotion to pictures or people will not take us there. We need to walk the path ourselves at some point.

Best wishes!
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


Posts: 3029
Link with BKs: BK
MARCH 27, 2013
Question: Dear brother, With your current article, If I realize it correctly, the true spirituality depends not on praising the trainer who has taught us how to swim, but rather using that teaching to swim, become a good swimmer, while learning to swim , there might be some help needed from the trainer, but at the end what matters is to be able to learn the art of swimming and be without any dependency. Here, swimming could be substituted for soul conscious, spirituality or enlightenment or karmateet stage after all these are just labels. Your thoughts?
Dear soul,

Thank you for your feedback.
In fact, that is the message. However, it is not that “this brother is sharing his own manmat.” Rather, BapDada has mentioned that as well in avyakt Murlis: “Be equal to the Father.” “To have thoughts of the original self means to bring about transformation.”( Avyakt Murli, March 18, 2012.)

It is not about knowing in theory how to swim or how to praise the “trainer” or coach. It is about swimming, and eventually to swim without a coach as you mentioned. That is to be “equal to the trainer.”

As we are seeing there are many labels for the same “stage of being.” Such as: “karmateet,” “detached observer,” “the witness,” a “trustee,” “Being merged with the Father,” “having all relationships with the Father,” “enlightened,” “self-realized,” etc, etc, etc. Once we realize that the “coach” or trainer is not interested in my praise, is not interested in anything from me; we are free to find that “self.” BapDada in the role of the Father, treats us like little children. However, let us see that a little child cannot be “equal to the Father,” although is required to be a child in order to grow. That is the paradox.

The path is there waiting for us: praising, talking, singing and chanting or having devotion to pictures or people will not take us there. We need to walk the path ourselves at some point.

Best wishes!
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


Posts: 3029
Link with BKs: BK
MARCH 6, 2013
Question: I know souls who come to the center, on occasion, who have been meditating for 20+ years. I am sure they have experienced the immense benefits of silence and transformation with their practice. One can tell from who they are that they have a high level of awareness and dharna. In the space of the observer we don’t even “remember” God, because we are there, we are where he has come to teach us to be. So perhaps some other types of meditation practices cut out the middle man?! Perhaps, these souls are already experiencing the space of the observer (soul consciousness/Golden aged consciousness) What do you think?
Dear soul,
Thank you for your great question!

Through knowledge we understand that every person will have their own way to connect to the Divine.
We know about “sections” in the soul world according to religions, but we also experience variety of understanding for we are “numberwise.”

Many Non-Brahmin souls come already with some Dharna, especially if they have an interest in spirituality. They are “newer” souls than Brahmin souls. Lesser “entropy” is their experience. It is my experience to have met non-Brahmin souls who liked this knowledge and they took the teachings to fit their religions or philosophies. However, since they heard the Murli many times, churned gyan and practiced some of the Maryadas they also are part of the “numberwise” Brahmin family.

Their meditation styles will give them a certain experience which these souls will feel comfortable with. That is exactly what they need to experience.

Similarly, in the Brahmin family, we have a variety of definitions and meditation styles based on Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Murlis.
We have the “remember me alone,” “remember the cycle,” “remember the Golden age,” “remember the knowledge,” and the bottom line, expressed as “become soul conscious.” There are many interpretations of the above.

Out of this, some Brahmin souls like to meditate based on romantic feelings towards Baba, others, like to meditate with thoughts of “I am a soul, this is my body,” some others; will put their music and their red lights and “think on Baba,” some others will read the Murlis as their meditation, and yet some others will just sit there and fantasize. Numberwise.

Also, we have remembrance as explained in Avyakt Murlis, which I do not hear much about those.
The experience of the “point,” is one of them, the experience of being a detached observer is another one, concentration by wrapping up all thoughts and feeling the soul and connecting to the Father.

I have shared the “atemporal” stage here which was taught to me by a good friend of mine, etc. As we can see there is a variety, which will be understood in many ways as well according to our own experiences.

However, there is something that we are forgetting and that is that the experience of mediation cannot be put into words. Every soul will experience exactly what they need to, according to where they need to go.

Best wishes!
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


Posts: 3029
Link with BKs: BK
MARCH 5, 2013
A “Detached Observer” the ultimate experience in soul consciousness


Soul consciousness means being a detached observer. Detached observer of what?
Detached observer of observing the movie of life, their actors and our own part in the movie.
Question: Can we change the movie?
Answer: No we can’t.
Question: But what about a “new movie”?
Answer: There isn’t a new movie. This is the same “old” movie which paradoxically is always “new” to us.

Question: if I observe the movie will that mean that I don’t have to do anything?
Answer: Every soul is an actor. Every actor has a part. Being detached means to observe the part without any further “analysis,” without any further “inner chat,” it is the acceptance of things as they are without further labels. If the role needs to “act” it will. If my feelings, vision and attitude has changed; likewise; the role will express in that way. Changes are always internal and based on “pure” awareness.

Below some extracts from the Avyakt Murlis to really “churn,” and “extract the butter” of it. Those points have been exposed and discussed in articles in this blog.

“By being a detached observer, you will easily become companion of the Father and equal to the Father.” – Avyakt Murli June 10, 2012

“Unless you constantly have the consciousness of a detached observer, you cannot make BapDada your companion. The experience of the stage of a detached observer enables you to experience the companionship of the Father.” – Avyakt Murli, November 25, 2012.

“Whatever happens, continue to observe as a detached observer. Instead of becoming a detached observer, you become a companion of the soul. Instead of being a companion of the Father, you become a companion of the other soul.”
“You cannot become a companion of God as long as you are a companion of another soul. That yoga is broken.”- Avyakt Murli, January 27, 2013

“First of all, become a completely detached trustee. Nothing is “mine”. This consciousness of “mine”: “My name will be spoilt; I will be defamed; this is my child, my mother-in-law does this to me…” Everything like this happens when there is the consciousness of “mine”. Wherever there is the consciousness of mine, the intellect turns around and you change.” – Avyakt Murli February 3, 2013.

Today’s blessin in the Sakar Murli (March 5, 2103)
“May you be an easy yogi playing your part of service while remaining detached from your part and loving to the Father.
Some children say that they are unable to have yoga and the reason for this is their lack of detachment. Because of not being detached, they do not experience love and where there is no love, there is no remembrance. The more love there is, the easier remembrance is. Therefore, do not play your part on the basis of your relationships, but play your part in terms of- service and you will remain detached. Like a lotus flower, remain detached from the atmosphere of the old world and loving to the Father and you will become an easy yogi.”

Dear souls,

Have you been wondering how can you have “all relationships with the Father”?
Have you been wondering how can you be “in love” with the Father?
Have you been wondering how can you be merged, how can you be equal to the Father?
Have you been wondering how do you know if you have accurate remembrance?
Have you been wondering how can you be a “companion of the Father”?

The answer is just one. Become a DETACHED OBSERVER.

If you ever thought that you cannot have relationships with anyone, because it is about “You and Baba alone,” or you ever thought that you have to “forget about everyone” or to have “disinterest” of this world by referring to it as “old, impure, tasteless, etc.”

I have news for you. Being with the Father alone means to be a DETACHED OBSERVER.

Just become a DETACHED OBSERVER.

Don’t deny. Don’t reject. Don’t fight. Don’t suppress.

Just be a DETACHED OBSERVER.

That is the trademark of soul consciousness.
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope


Posts: 3029
Link with BKs: BK
FEBRUARY 4, 2013
Question: Dear brother, It is amazing that how a test in life can show you how much faith you have in god and drama, my experience in last week, with the initial test of high blood pressure and possibility of high cholesterol made me go through the test of attachment to the body, family and put the power to pack up in work. The mind which created fearful thoughts were finally overcome by being in a solid remembrance and soul conscious, the end test result of my blood work showed it was not a big thing after all, how ever, the realization I had with this test was, in a difficult situations, nothing will help other than the remembrance of baba and the ability to be in soul conscious as I understand karmic accounts are being settled. Nothing is new as we all have to settle our account one way or another. The question for you brother is how far does our account go in terms of settlement? many births or couple of births? Does it mean that brahmin soul will have lots to settle as we would have taken many births in a numberwise manner?
Thank you for your question and for sharing your great experience!

Dear soul,
Karmic accounts started for a Brahmin soul towards the confluence of the Silver and Copper age. From that point on, we have accumulated many karmic accounts. This does not mean necessarily “sinful” accounts but accounts with just a return as well, like getting a good education, good health, etc. The issue for Brahmin souls that no other soul experiences is that when you signed up to be a BK, you signed up to settle karmic accounts in order to become “karmateet.” We cannot think in “numbers” as in life we have done many things, but we can get an idea by the “theme” of accounts; for instance for some souls most of their karmic bondages are related with health issues, for others, relationships; for others a combination, but once you overcome those accounts through suffering and yoga, you may have “greater” tests or perhaps those accounts are over. We never know. All we know is that we have the capacity to settle those accounts, which will be done in a numberwise manner.

It is important to realize that “numbers” are not as important as the INTENSITY of those accounts. A very intense suffering means the settlement of a “big account.” That goes according to the capacity of a Brahmin soul to settle accounts, which is pre-ordained in the Drama.

Best wishes!
Do not lose hope in those who have lost hope

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