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FYI - references in murli indicating how coming of Shiv Baba


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FYI - References in murli indicating how coming of Shiv Baba coming was only understood gradually:

From 28-02-2012 Murli, translated manually from Hindi:

"The Father sits and explains, it is also sung that the brahmin got trapped whilst moving along. This [Brahma] Baba did not know [at all]. [Shiv Baba's] entry happened suddenly. It is not all known [understood] at first, is it? It is only gradually-and-gradually understood that this is [Shiv] Baba's work."

Hope to capture more references as we go along.

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The additions and corrections to the exhibition pictures:

From Murli of Mar 12, 2012

[In context of the exhibition pictures]

"Baba will keep explaining new-new points. There will be additions and corrections [to the exhibition pictures]. When they print the Ramayana, the print the same thing and this is why they tell us, [see] what you used to write before and what you are writing now. Baba says that He explains new things to you everyday. Would I explain everything at once?"


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Greetings and hullo dear Vision of Self. Yes indeed, after many, many years of denial by Senior BK admin, it is now agreed by the more enlightened BK's, as per the murli you quote, that Brahma Baba certainly didn't know quite what was going on... and that God's presence in the world was only understood after many years : not till the 1950's, historical documents suggest.

Also to mention that the murli you quote from was with us long before Adi Dev was written by Official BK Spokesman Brother Jagdish Chander. Adi Dev of course, is the widely distributed and official story book that claims BB knew exactly when Shiv arrived. Alas, this fanciful Adi Dev version of the understanding of God's descent is also printed in detail on the Official BKIVV Website!

Regarding the rightly admired Exhibition Pictures, to which you referred.
To my knowledge, no further additions to the Pictures have been suggested by BaapDada at least for the last 50 years: and actually there is still no Shiv as the Seed of the Tree on that Official BK Course Poster: an element that perhaps BaapDada is too subtle to notice. However, that essential clarification of knowledge has been added on a western poster or two: and no doubt the Supreme BaapDada is aware of this enlightened design improvement, made by His children. We look forward to BK's in Bharat embracing these new/old realities, as we tread the path together.


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robin wrote:
To my knowledge, no further additions to the Pictures have been suggested by BaapDada at least for the last 50 years: and actually there is still no Shiv as the Seed of the Tree on that Official BK Course Poster: an element that perhaps BaapDada is too subtle to notice. However, that essential clarification of knowledge has been added on a western poster or two: and no doubt the Supreme BaapDada is aware of this enlightened design improvement, made by His children. We look forward to BK's in Bharat embracing these new/old realities, as we tread the path together.
I thought ”shiva” was supposed give knowledge to his ”children” not the other way around!

..and i am sure that Robert (Shunyamurti) Shubow had a lot to do with "Adi Dev". He learnt well.
http://www.satyogainstitute.org/

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Continuuing of the theme of refinement of knowledge over time:

Translated from Murli July 7, 2012 wrote:
Brahm is the element. Brahma is the father. His Father is Shiva. These things are not understood by human beings. These things were not at all explained to you at the beginning, were they? At first you were babies* and now you have become grown up.


* - need to verify translation for "sagiir" as babies

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Sakaar Murli Oct 1st, 2012
A soul is like a star. Something big would not be able to stay in the centre of the forehead. It must definitely be something that can't be seen with these eyes. If it were big, it could be seen. A soul is extremely subtle, like a point. These are the deepest things. In the beginning, you were told that the soul is the element of light. If you had been told in the beginning that it is like a star, you wouldn't have been able to understand. He would not give you all the knowledge in just one day. Day by Day, the Father tells you very deep things.


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If you had been told in the beginning that it is like a star, you wouldn't have been able to understand.

Please Mr Wise, if I may?

If the various aspects of gyan were too "deep" to be understood if presented accurately at the beginning, and that's why they had to be gradually "revealed" over many years to be understood, why then is it that people nowadays, like yourself (and me?) grasp it over a course of 7 days or so?

I thought the early wallahs , the dadis, dadas et al, were the 'higher' souls of the rosary, closer to "god" so they should be able to comprehend more immediately shouldn't they? And that 'paradox' is even more pronounced for Lekhraj/PP Brahma himself, no?

Yet, those multitudes who come later are given the full gyan immediately. None of them, according to what's been said in many avyakt murlis, have any chance of getting into the 8 because those seats are taken by the seniors.

If full knowledge was so deep, needing many years of preparation based on the "shallower' inaccurate gyan, before it could be revealed and understood, then why aren't people (today) given the gyan gradually too, as it was given then?

They should be told (because it is supposedly easier to grasp for Kali-yug intellects) that the soul is a thumb shape, that Brahma is God, and that destruction is only a few years away.

Then gradually, as they practice accordingly and become "purified" , eventually they can be ready for the full truth to be revealed, so that its depth is immediately grasped ?

What say you Mr Wise?

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Pink Panther wrote:
I thought the early wallahs , the dadis, dadas et al, were the 'higher' souls of the rosary, closer to "god" so they should be able to comprehend more immediately shouldn't they?


Don't agree with this that those closer to "god" should be able to comprehend more immediately.
"Those who come last go fast" is the slogan.

Note it also took time even for Brahma Baba to fully comprehend what was going on and that Shiv Baba was inspiring this.

Shiv Baba's knowledge is being filtered by Brahma's mind and intellect and thus until Brahma's intellect is ready to understand, Shiv Baba cannot get across the knowledge.

Of course you could argue in disbelief that it was Brahma Baba made up all the knowledge but that would be a separate discussion.
The part of the trance messengers also contributed a great deal to the clarification of knowledge with time (role of Avyakt Brahma etc.) which makes me believe that some other power is behind all this (i.e. Shiv Baba). Of course each one could have their own opinion.


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Thank you, but you have not answered the main thrust of my post.

"If the various aspects of gyan were too "deep" to be understood if presented accurately at the beginning, and that's why they had to be gradually "revealed" over many years to be understood, why then is it that people nowadays grasp it ?"
... and ...
"If full knowledge was so deep, needing many years of preparation based on the "shallower' inaccurate gyan, before it could be revealed and understood, then why aren't people (today) given the gyan gradually too, as it was given then? "

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For 1: They were too deep to be understood by Brahma Baba and those of the initial days. There was a lot of influence of Hindu devotion where concepts such as "God is omnipresent" would not have made any sense at all to them coming from their background.

For 2: Why aren't people (today) given the gyan gradually too, as it was given then?
a) Why present a blur photo when there is a more refined one?
b) Over the years we've built a deeper understanding of knowledge. Thus we can now speak with some experience that's backing up the theory. Again those who come later to take the knowledge have the advantage of having more ready-made (refined) knowledge.

To your point though:
I do think that while giving the course BKs are obligated to tell the world that we had NOT figured the knowledge out from day 1 and that this knowledge very much evolved with time, and how it evolved through time. Essentially: download/file.php?id=32

As an extension, it can change even more if they [the new ones] come up with some brilliant corrections and BapDada approves. My guess for example, would be someone is going to come along and show that the cycle is 6253 years. And that's actually fine if one can accept how things have become refined with time.

The more critical question though is am I helping make myself a better person and the world a better place to live in? Am I becoming a deity (a giver) and conquering the vices? For me the test of knowledge is if BKs can establish the Golden age. Then it is not going to matter if the soul is a point of light or not or whether God is omnipresent or not.

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