Board index Misc. BK History related topics Official BKWSU history research project

Official BKWSU history research project

Posts: 231
Link with BKs: Newcomer
Thanks, I got your PM Robin but the control freaks have disabled the private messaging system by default and I cannot reply.

You have to re-enable it somehow.

Admins? How does he do so?
As soon as souls indulge in vice, they experience bad omens. Their intellect is locked up. This is an incognito, severe punishment. Then such souls would never be able to say, "God says that lust is the greatest enemy". SM 2003/09/02

Posts: 152
Link with BKs: -
paramsingh wrote:
Will it be possible for us to see the original copy? There might be something in it you missed.

hello paramsingh...i recently sent the 'original copy' you reference to one of the site administrators. i thought admin might like to upload it : share the wealth.

admin User avatar
Site Admin

Posts: 8
Link with BKs: BK
Here it is...
(74 KiB) Downloaded 165 times

It is not clear if this compiled by the "bhaibund comittee" or is this from court records or somewhere else?

How to turn on private messaging:
Click on "User Control Panel" (link on top left after you login)
Click on "Board Preferences"
In "Allow users to send you private messages" select "Yes"

Posts: 231
Link with BKs: Newcomer
admin wrote:
It is not clear if this compiled by the "bhaibund comittee" or is this from court records or somewhere else?

Yes, I'd be interested to know which source it came from too. (It looks like one I worked on).

Who is doing the historical research for the BKWSU now Wendy is dead?
As soon as souls indulge in vice, they experience bad omens. Their intellect is locked up. This is an incognito, severe punishment. Then such souls would never be able to say, "God says that lust is the greatest enemy". SM 2003/09/02

Posts: 152
Link with BKs: -
thanks for pm advice admin. MAMA document published by 'bhaibund committee'.

paramsingh perhaps you can post your own discoveries from the source you worked on?

Posts: 2
Link with BKs: -
Robin on 13 July 2012:

'Well, timelines as we know, are just the tip of the actual BK history iceberg. (However for those interested in timeline trivia, documents under Mama's hand as Om Mandli president in 1938, tell us that Lekhraj Kripalani was 54 in that year, confirmed by a copy of his birth certificate, and Janki Kripalani 13, and that the yagya started 'three or four years before" : i.e. 1934-5).'

Whereas the BKs maintain:

'Brahma Baba, born into a humble home as Lekhraj Kripilani in 1876'

'Dadi Janki joined the BKWSU as a founding member in 1937 at the age of 21.'

(both quotes current at

To my mind this is the most obvious anomaly that Robin has chosen to disclose here. If we accept Robin's statement, then we have to accept that the BK have chosen to portray their founder as 8 years older than he actually was and their current leader as 9 years older than she actually is!

I think another poster has already asked why sometime back, but as far as I can see neither Robin nor any other has offered an explanation? I'm really baffled by this, not just the reasoning behind it, but to successfully maintain the illusion that any individual, let alone a prominent one, is 8 or 9 years older than in reality, would surely involve an impressive conspiracy to deceive?

VisionOfSelf User avatar
Site Admin

Posts: 691
Link with BKs: BK
Hi baffled,

That's what this recent "Official BKWSU history research project" is supposed to fix exactly based on the various documents etc. retrieved from the British Library etc. The website guess has not yet caught up to the actual account (assuming the documents are sufficient proof). I personally have not seen the birth certificate yet so I can't quite comment.

I think murlis refer to Shiv Baba coming into Brahma Baba at his age of retirement which traditionally is 60 years, which then, on this logic arrive at the publicised 1936 - 60 = 1876 year. I don't think those writing the "history" had the birth certificate or the documents which we have now (thanks to the technology of scanning, Internet, ...)

Other than that I can't think of any reason of trying to purposely misquote the age of Brahma Baba. 52 or 60 in 1936 does not make that much difference to me. You do have a point that the sooner the Official BK website fixes this it is better.

Now as to Shiv Baba's coming in 1936 --- Dadi Brijindira as a primary witness recalls the famous "Shivohum" incident and her recollection is on mp3 someplace. For some more see post4453.html#p4453
Now obviously they didn't fully understand who "Shiva" was at that time & it took them till close to the 1950s to figure that out. But that is a separate discussion.

Posts: 15
Location: Australia
Link with BKs: BK

Dada Lekhraj
In India there is a term sathiyana which literally means "going sixtyish" and is used when someone enters a particular phase of life, rather than indicating an actual biological age. Sathiyana is often used pejoratively to indicate someone having a heated brain associated with ageing. However, it can also be used to indicate the "tapas" or heat associated with spiritual endeavour. Lekhraj was 54 when he "became 60". I've seen the birth certificate.

Dadi Janki
In "Is This Justice" there are 15 Kripalanis, 3 Kirpalanis (the two are often used interchangeably) and 4 Jankis. Neither name was unique to Dadi Janki. Also, to the best of our knowledge, the names and ages listed in ITJ were taken between October 1937 (the official beginning) and June 1938 which is when a lot of documentation and written information exchanged hands between families, courts and Om Mandli. At that time Dadi Janki (nee Janki Samtani) was still married to Navil Kripalani, and staying in Assam. As a point of interest, Narayan Dada was quick to point out that Navil Kripalanli of Assam was a completely separate lineage to his from Sindh.

Another indication that Dadi Janki isn't the Janki Kripalani listed in ITJ is when one considers the traditional practice of having the husband's or father's name as the middle name. For example Jasoda was Jasoda Lekhraj (husband) Kripalani and Dadi Lekhraj was Lekhraj Mulchand (father) Kripalani. The Janki listed as 13 is Janki Metharam Kripalani. Metharam is neither her husband's nor her father's name.

Finally, Narayan Dada, who was between 10 and 12 in the early days has quite a good recollection of early events. He says Dadi Janki was at least 20 when she joined. He suggested she was between 25 and 30 in fact. As a child, Narayan would have known if Janki had been close to his age.

I agree that the sooner the official website can be updated with more accurate information, the better it will be for everyone.
Today You are You
That is truer than true
There is no-one alive
Who is Youer than You
Dr Seuss

Posts: 869
Link with BKs: -
I have sat in classes (plural) with Dadi Janki where she said she came in contact with Om Mandli when she was aged 13 or 14. She was forced into an arranged marriage and had a child at that young age which she cared for for a short period, maybe two years, which she then gave away to someone else to look after so that she could join the Mandli. (Gave away her own child? Yes thats what she said at the time. The story may have changed since). She was definitely still in her mid-teens, and for years felt she was seen as "junior" because of her delay in joining, so she made extra 'effort".

Now, the facts and figures in that version of the story may be "rubbery" - DJ has been "caught out" (a negative turn of phrase I agree but you know what i mean) a number of times spinning a yarn differently, but justifiably in her view. She has said so to me directly once when i challenged a contradiction to one of her previous classes (not on biography, on gyan points) , because it was for a desired outcome or effect, to make a particular point. I gave her the benefit of the doubt at the time and thought maybe she was being sublime, subtle, esoteric...

Selective memory, false memory, loss of memory, desirable memory etc are very human. It's the Rashomon effect (named after the famous movie of the 1950's by Akira Kurosawa where different people witness the same event in different ways). That's why documentation is so important.

Posts: 2536
Link with BKs: BK
Documentation of useful thing only is important. Else- it would be like saying- Do not empty the waste paper basket. Store even them and maintain properly.

What DJ did is not an important to us. what we need is important to us or to those who wish to take benefit of BKWSU.

When a student joins a college, he does not study its history in detail. Many would not know who is the founder, at what date it got established, what the land area, what is building area, what is the fund available, how many departments are there, etc. [Of course, since it is legally bound, they will have documentation. but the point here is- those who are going to take real benefit to develop themselves are not dependent on it]

He just checks whether this college can give me effective education that makes me fit for the market.

Even when a person joins a company, he is least bothered about the character of his Boss. He just makes sure of his work and payment. Some will think short term benefit, some long term.

It would be foolishness to question the interviewer - "What is the age and date of birth of the Boss, the board of directors, etc and etc.

No one studies history of mango tree, before eating mango. Else- it would be like saying - "when this tree/seed was sown? Who did the work? when this began to bear fruit? how many tonnes of fruit this has give totally? ....

- please reply to me to these first. Then only i will eat mango. "
There are three things- essence, knowledge and information

Those who are intellectuals, will find essence. those who are next will be in knowledge. those who have just ego, will be caught in information/data.

Then it will be like this- "chaaron taraf lagaaye pherey, phir bhi har dum door rahe = We went and searched all the four directions, but at every instant, we were far from (god/goal)""
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


Return to BK History related topics