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Brahma Baba's wife, Yashoda bhen


Post Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:11 pm

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We have one witness statement. I can provide others. Are your counter witnesses reliable and do they have a track record of honesty and objectivity?


Unfortunately that statement cannot be proved as 'true.' I mean, did Steve Jobs cheated on Steve Wozniak regarding the creation of the game "breakout"? Jobs mentioned the split of 50-50 andd he told Woz that he only received $350 when "in reality" he received $5000....If you read some of Steve Jobs bios, Jobs denied cheating on Woz. Some biographies do not mention this incident and some others, assure that Jobs cheated Wozniak. It is hard to believe that someone could act like that, specially for someone who was a Budhist, vegetarian and who never gave money to charity... Better to see the end result which was that Jobs and Wozniak maintained a mutually rewarding friendship where both of them worked together and complemented each other.

Likewise, I will never know how true that statement was about Yashoda. I wasn't there. Neither you. Very few will give a non biased account without agendas. Most will be pressured by everything around them to tint their opinion. Ultimately, to see a woman trying to protect her husband is not a big deal.. but when people know that these souls are "supposed to be religious" then everything changes. At that point, the "other side" can throw profanity and be even physical, because they are "normal," the religious souls cannot do that. That is a childish way to gain some points. "You are supposed to be this" when there is nothing else to blame these religious souls for.

Personally, I don't think it is enough that BKs and the BKWSU follows the Kali Yuga law and general ethics. I feel their ethics should be higher than the fag end of the Cycle?

Is that really so wrong to think? Please explain why?


We cannot generalize. Bks are "work in progress" (myself included) we are not a ready made angels from day 1. This is a fact that even Brahma Baba went through in his life. I understood that when I read the book "Adi Dev," where Brahma Baba is portrayed as perfect from day 1. That is not what gyan tells me, Brahma Baba was an "effort maker" as he himself acknowledges in the Murlis.
However, bhakti feelings come up and we are unable to see human nature, but idealize someone. We call that to be "faithful." This is necessary for many religious minded individuals.

Many things in gyan could be only understood when experienced. That experience cannot be expressed in words. That is why the "word of God as being the truth" is far from it. ;-)
Words are static, reality or our perception, dynamic. But those words are a 'pointer' to a greater reality that can only be discovered if we walk the path... the individual path...obviously this is a "numberwise" task... and this is my experience with gyan and the "reason" why i am still a BK.

When we try to "formalize" deep religious/spiritual understanding, we can put people into boxes, cutting off any individuality. Beliefs then become "dogmas" to be recited and our own personal experiences are tinted by the understanding of someone higher up. That has been the history of religion. That is not BKism only.

That is what i consider a "4th grade" understanding of gyan. everything by the word without further thought and shutting down other feelings and expressions which some people do not consider to be "right." (being "right" is open to discussion, of course.)

At the beginning of the Yagya, "they" thought that they were going to see destruction in their lifetime. Most of those souls have departed to another life already. Even though, Bapdada hasn't released a date for destruction but have gone along with the "children," still you hear BKs giving their dates for destruction. That creates chaos, that creates anxiety. Human nature.

Those failed destruction forecasts are there. It is part of the history, but for someone who is an attentive student, we can understand Baba's position: "Bapdada lets everyone play their role." The issue is with us. However, just beacuase there has been faulty forecasts, it doesn't mean that this knowledge is wrong. Like i said before, we need to experience it and not everyone has the capacity for that.

I feel that you have given valid points. I cannot speak for anyone and i cannot change anyone's thoughts about anything. It is not about that anyway...

Let us say that you are able to find all the "guilty" ones, do you think that everything will be resolved? No. history has shown us that "people are people." Gandhi thought that once the British were out, India would be a happy land. Didn't happen.

Once things are uncovered, just let it be; that is let everyone be free to choose what they think is good for them, after all that is the same way that BapDada acts. That is to follow the Father.

Post Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:37 am

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Why do you think the BKWSU in India is denying it, and continuing to cover up the truth, and the BKWSU in the West attempting to manage a slow transformation to another whitewash?
avyakt7 wrote:
Let us say that you are able to find all the "guilty" ones, do you think that everything will be resolved?

Admitting the truth will help spiritually realign the movement and free individuals within. If individuals choose to continue to believe and follower their chosen leaders AFTER that point, that is their own choice.

The primary ethical problems are that

    a) individuals have been and are being denied that information and choice by individuals who benefit from the deception.
    b) disclosure is only happening after encultation takes place.

As to Jobs and Wozniak ... you are creating a huge, billowing, fallacious waffle again. Look, it is very easy. Do you want to know the truth. Dig out the bank statements. There is your answer. End of story. No need to confuse the issue. If you need to add certainty "beyond reasonable doubt", to use the legal term, get a sworn testimony from the payee and/or accountants.

As for Gandhi? We all know what Lekhraj Kripalani and the early BKs thought of him; "treacherous traitor" ... "leader of the crow race", and so on. So what is your point?

Actually, you have your history wrong in both cases. Wozniak was gutted left the industry and went to teach. Gandhi knew what was going to happen. He specifically said, "before we can remain at peace, we must fight amongst ourselves, it is better that we do".

Are you suggesting that people and society aren't changed by people or organizations being found guilty in court cases, or exposed in the media? Have you any experience of how a court case or public inquiry is held?

Jeez, next you'll be telling us the Nuremberg Trials were a waste of time, Europe is all still run by the Nazis ... and Richard Nixon is the President of the USA.

We don't have a smoking 'gun', we have a smoking 'armoury'.
As soon as souls indulge in vice, they experience bad omens. Their intellect is locked up. This is an incognito, severe punishment. Then such souls would never be able to say, "God says that lust is the greatest enemy". SM 2003/09/02

Post Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:46 pm

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Admitting the truth will help spiritually realign the movement and free individuals within. If individuals choose to continue to believe and follower their chosen leaders AFTER that point, that is their own choice.


Hopefully you can know when to draw the line of "AFTER that point." It appears to me that you have reached that already. As far as I am concerned, it doesn't mean a bit of what sister so and so did or someone being 50 years on gyan has done. They are human beings just like you and me. My experiences with Baba has nothing to do with their human activities and my adherence to the BK movement is not related at all with a human being. Your juicy gossip is meaningless...but I will encourage everyone to go deeper into gyan and yoga. This in itself should allow anyone to be set "free" from a perceived cage of hierarchies and human decisions of who is worth to go to heaven and who is not. Because someone has a golden ring in their finger doesn't mean a bit in the grand scheme of things.. however, some may think otherwise, and I ought to respect that.

Now on the examples that I gave. Here in the USA, no one has the right to get into my bank account or get into my financial business for any reason unless I had perpetrated a crime. Jobs "told" Woz how much he was going to get. There is no contract about it. There is no crime.

Your "know it all" attitude is very typical of some "Ex-Bks" that I have met. Time to be real.

As far as Gandhi, my "facts" are based on the movie "Gandhi" (1982.) which portrays a Gandhi who did not want to fight at all but used resistance instead, which is a form of violence because many lost their lives for a fairy tale of "independence." This is probably the thought of early BKs. His activities are applauded by the " normal" guy who doesn't know about spiritual laws but at then caught up with him, when he was assassinated. Perhaps you know some other information recently discovered. Perhaps we should wait another 10 years for more stuff to be discovered that we will call "truth." Do you see the pattern? There is no way to know the truth (in human affairs,) it is a perception of it.

Are you suggesting that people and society aren't changed by people or organizations being found guilty in court cases, or exposed in the media? Have you any experience of how a court case or public inquiry is held?


:-) You keep surprising me even more... Yes, people and society are changed, but is that change aligned with the "truth" ? or perhaps the "perceived" truth only?
History has many examples of how the "legal system" messed up. In the 1800 it was legal for black people to be treated as slaves. In the 1950s to consider gay marriages legal was out of the question. Galileo was threatened so he had to retract himself in public, etc, etc, etc.

Jeez, next you'll be telling us the Nuremberg Trials were a waste of time, Europe is all still run by the Nazis ... and Richard Nixon is the President of the USA.

We don't have a smoking 'gun', we have a smoking 'armoury'.


No. I will be telling you that you have quite a bit to learn... and you will probably laugh about it... Me too.

Post Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:03 pm

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Please, you've gone 'off topic' again and are shovelling on the BS again. Let's keep things clean and develop the discussions in a civil manner.
avyakt7 wrote:
As far as Gandhi, my "facts" are based on the movie "Gandhi" (1982.)


You do know what Baba says in the Murlis about going to the movies, bhai? ... If your reality is based on Hollywood, I rest my case. Those were Gandhi's own word I gave you ... and it really should not be me quoting Shrimat back to you.

It strikes me that the problem with BKs today, is that they don't actual follow Shrimat, and that the BKWSU in general is being turned into a Bollywood.
No. I will be telling you that you have quite a bit to learn... and you will probably laugh about it.

No offence intended ... but in our case I would have to 'unlearn' a great deal for me to see the world through your eyes. That is not meant to be harsh, it is just a matter of fact. One cannot fit a quart into a broken pint pot. I strongly advise that you find a down to earth authority figure who you can trust and respect and take a look at your mind and mental processes.

There is a proportionately a very great deal of difference between any individual's existence and that of a religious hierarchy which effects (or enslaves) and profits from 100,000s of people's lives. At least if you invested in Apple, you would have made a great deal back and been able to spend it fruitfully. If you look at the accounts of the BKWSU, they are 99.9% one way. It is hard to say who has profited except for the printers and builders, and those who eat daily off it. Of course, they keep the full accounts of the BKWSU hidden too.


As far as Jasoda Kripalani goes, 'someone' must have a better idea of the truth of her ... which is it hard to get to? Why is it impossible to have an adult discussion about here? Perhaps Narain Kripalani's knows. He has not *entirely* been bought over by the Brahma Kumaris leaders.

Unfortunately, those individuals have every political and financial interest in creating a mythic Jasoda ... and this is where half the problem lies. The rest of the problem exists in the dissonant space where the real Jasoda meets myth in the BK collective mind.

I revert to my basic position which is there is most benefit in a commitment to discovering hard realities, and an Age of Truth cannot be made out of lies.

The real Jasoda, like the real history, still exists in time and space. The one the BK leaders paint is like a statue in a temple and the scriptures. People feel the difference.
As soon as souls indulge in vice, they experience bad omens. Their intellect is locked up. This is an incognito, severe punishment. Then such souls would never be able to say, "God says that lust is the greatest enemy". SM 2003/09/02

Post Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:59 pm

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Please, you've gone 'off topic' again and are shovelling on the BS again. Let's keep things clean and develop the discussions in a civil manner.


Look, i hope the admins on this site get your "bully" drift and ask you to put your filthy language some other place. Being civil does not entail to use derogatory language. If you don't like what I write, then do not read it, but you will not tell me what to do in a million years. Hope you get that straight.

You do know what Baba says in the Murlis about going to the movies, bhai? ... If your reality is based on Hollywood, I rest my case. Those were Gandhi's own word I gave you ... and it really should not be me quoting Shrimat back to you.


That seems like straight "4th grade" understanding of the Murli to me. If you consider yourself to have the mentality of a young kumari back in the 1950s India, take the Murli that way. Most mature BKs have outgrown that childish understanding by now. It seems like you are stuck in it.

No offence intended ... but in our case I would have to 'unlearn' a great deal for me to see the world through your eyes. That is not meant to be harsh, it is just a matter of fact. One cannot fit a quart into a broken pint pot. I strongly advise that you find a down to earth authority figure who you can trust and respect and take a look at your mind and mental processes.


Thanks for those praising lines. :D It is very reassuring that you cannot see the world through my eyes. You just have to learn to respect the way I see things, even if you don't like them. As the Tao mentions: "To learn we need to unlearn" and you have lots of that to catch up with. Wholeheartedly agree with you, bhai..

As far as Jasoda Kripalani goes, 'someone' must have a better idea of the truth of her ... which is it hard to get to? Why is it impossible to have an adult discussion about here? Perhaps Narain Kripalani's knows. He has not *entirely* been bought over by the Brahma Kumaris leaders.


yeah, continue with the gossip. He says that. She says the other thing... She must be right because, she is not entirely bought over by the BK leaders, because I said so....
Look I am trying to be nice with you by replying to your gossipy questions the best I can, otherwise; this will probably be a "solo" of you with you. Like I said before, you do a good job trying to "bully" others... but I am not going into your gossip threads anymore. Stuff that should be in a tabloid.. or in your website...

Post Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:37 pm

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You don't understand.

It is not so much about the facts but about your/our/the BKWSU's relationship towards them.

In a healthy, well developed individual or society, objective facts should be quick and easy to get to. There should be no obstruction to them.

I would argue that the propagation of falsehoods is unhealthy and damages individuals or societies. In a free society*, the aggressive defence of them is, literally, a symptom of a mental illness.

The acceptance of Lekhraj Kripalani's change of 'eternal' affections from Jasoda to Om Radhe is worthy of looking at, as it sets a precedent which has been followed since within the religion. At the time, within Hinduism, the common belief was that a woman was a man's partner, even into the next life (hence sati). Given there was no awareness of Shiva Baba working within the Om Mandli up until after 1950, was it really so unreasonable that their community was so up in arms about what was going on?

A 54 year old man shacking up with a 20 year girl and his wife being left in the kitchen?

Bear in mind that at this time his wife was not serving Shiva Baba but Prajapati God Brahma.

* by "free society", obviously if one lives in Stalinist Russia, North Korea, or under some other oppressive State, different rules apply ... but where there is no fear of physical persecution, then surely there can be no good reason to propagate or defend falsehoods?
As soon as souls indulge in vice, they experience bad omens. Their intellect is locked up. This is an incognito, severe punishment. Then such souls would never be able to say, "God says that lust is the greatest enemy". SM 2003/09/02

Post Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:01 am
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Param Singh please do not use any language which is indicative or offensive in nature....please refrain from doing that.

Post Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:43 pm

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No idea what you are talking about. If it is "shacking", shack means house and shacking up means moving into the same house as someone in an informal relationship. That is precisely what happened.
As soon as souls indulge in vice, they experience bad omens. Their intellect is locked up. This is an incognito, severe punishment. Then such souls would never be able to say, "God says that lust is the greatest enemy". SM 2003/09/02

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