Board index BK Section (BKs & New BK students only please) BK churning, realisations, and musings few points and doubts

few points and doubts


Post Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:21 am

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I, personally, feel very connected to the BKs' Shiv Baba and his teachings. Any content I come across say other religious tenets, philosophies, saints' teachings, personality development books, other spiritual channels' teachings, generic wisdom of world ... I always feel Baba too has told so, in a way. I always feel Baba has told the essence of everything in the world, so the claim that this Confluence Age BK philosophy is the genesis of all religions, philosophies and the foundation of all cultures seems valid to me. This is my personal opinion though.

In fact, the BK movement is not just about the wisdom given by Shiv Baba chanelling through Sakar Brahma Baba and Dadi Gulzar as Avyakt BapDada but also about the various ways each soul understands this knowledge, practices Yoga, does seva and his/her dharnas.

There is a lot of variation. This variation manifests as various religions, sects and cults in the next cycle, i.e. from Dwapur yug (Copper Age), but once introduced to Baba and contributed to world transformation through our vibrations 33 crore souls are born in heaven (Golden Age+Silver Age). Golden Age begins with 9lakh souls and Silver Age starts with 3 crore souls, Copper Age starts with 33crore souls who have already descended from Soul World in golden & siver ages, then gradually world gets populated with Copper Age and iron age souls {i assume most of you aware of this, just a recap}.

Here I have a doubt that if the religious fathers (founders of various religions and sects and cults) are not BK souls, how come the essence seems familiar to BK philosophy? I felt may be through word of mouth, literature & telepathy* [mansa seva-service through blessings and good wishes; when we do mansa seva we not only transmit positive energy(which results in material and spiritual attainments of the receiver) but also wisdom and sanskars ].

Thus the essence of BK philosophy, in various forms, gets transmitted to every soul resulting in various schools of thought. Thus we all contribute to human culture in owr own way consciously/subconsciously.

Post Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:23 am

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Once in a Murli, Shiv Baba asked when Shiv Baba is here giving knowledge to you, is there a Shiv Baba in Soul World? What is the answer? At our centre some students said he exists in Soul World also since he vibrates at a very high frequency and we wont realise him being in Soul World. If that is true, does that mean our soul also exists in Soul World simultaneously while existing here in our forehead on earth and Soul World is just another dimension which we can have conscious access to when in meditation? Can we also extend that angelic realm is also a dimension parallelly existing with the physical dimension?

What is ether? Is it where our thoughts, imaginations and visualisations are recorded? Do we create our angelic bodies in this Confluence Age or access our already existing angelic bodies and energise them?

Basically, these are my doubts about Three Worlds, are they physical spaces placed above our galaxy, or just subtle and incorporeal realms which are depicted above our planet earth in three world image of 7 Days Course just to represent their lighter or higher vibration level?

What is the vibration of angelic realm (brahmapuri), vishnupuri, Shankar puri & incorporeal world? They must be of increasing vibration respectively due to the depiction of them in higher altitude in the same order.

Does higher vibration means higher frequency or lower frequency? Actually more stable means less thoughts, so does higher vibration means lower frequency?

What is it that vibrates, is it our etheric body or soul? Since there is no subtle body in incorporeal world, may be it is the vibration level of soul. Should we measure it in thoughts per sec? What about the quality of thoughts? Somewhere I came across thoughts of love have highest vibration and thoughts of fear the lowest vibration, how is this vibration quantified?

Also, I feel not just quality of vibration but intensity (quantity) also varies from person to person, hence numberwise in service of world transformation through self transformation.

Kindly share your views.

Thank you

Post Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:23 am

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Shakespere said “in your strength my dear lies hope for the world” Baba says “aap ki chadti kala-sabka bhala” , so be happy spread happiness.

Divine intervention: when we take help from other souls(friends/family/strangers) or pray to god/angels/saints they help in overcoming our difficulties what do they get in return, other souls get our blessing s in return which will add to their material and spiritual attainments in this birth or coming births, but. By this logic I feel ShivBaba also incarnates, even if he doesn’t is he also an antenna to cosmic bank or is a cosmic bank, does his energy change if we draw from him through Yoga or does it remain constant, by law of conservation of energy it should change unless he is just an antenna/a door to connect to cosmic bank. Is he above Law of Karma is it applied only to mortals or is he also subjected to Law of Karma, for yes how will he go through the effects if he doesn’t incarnate and why won’t he be rewarded for his service of teaching gnan, Yoga, seva and dharna to us

Law of conservation of energy: if total energy in the universe is constant how do we recover the energy lost in doing bad karma-does suffering release our bad karma or is it a result of our bad karma. Bad karma is basically our energy invested in causing harm to self, others and environment. Or the universe is all about cause and effect i.e. it mirrors back our energy if the cause/input the energy we sent to the universe is positive we get positive result and if it is negative we get negative result. We constantly conduct energy so our future depends on both the energy we sent out in the past and the energy we send now in the present. So when we go through rough patch in our life we should not passively accept that it is the result of our past but should actively work on our present and overcome it.

Karma: Is there something called negative energy or is it just energy directed to cause grief, and positive energy the energy directed to cause happiness. If negative karma means the energy send out by us in the past and present to give grief. So karma is energy in action if it gives happiness it is positive and if it gives grief it is negative. So if we have bad karma it means we have sent out some energy in the past which will return in future or is returning in present as obstacles to activities we take up in present or as suffering(physical/emotional/situational i.e . Caused by circumstances) we can overcome this by our own efforts or help from others/prayers/meditation. When we take help from others return it as blessings or help them in future or by helping someone else or by doing all three, but what about the help we get through prayers/meditation can we understand this as we have charged ourselves through prayers and meditation so the act of praying/meditating itself is the effort and easing of our difficulties is the result and we have neutralised the effect of grief causing energy which was used by us by sending happiness causing energy through prayer and meditation.

Hierarchy: why do souls exist ‘numberwise’ as Baba says. Are just the efforts put in Confluence Age enough to sustain us for complete cycle, if yes what about other souls who may not get Baba’s message or who get the message at the end of Confluence Age and what about them who may not believe in Baba what about their happiness and attainments are they bound to be just devotees in various religions, if yes what would their attainments be and when do they get them. If only BK souls are ‘hero part dharis’(hero actors) and all others character artists or normal actors why are they denied their due, if all are souls shouldn’t all be given equal oppurtunity to be their best. Is it something about the constitution of the soul or its consciousness, is there the difference in the attunement of frequencies. What is the soul made up of. If all souls can stay in Paramdham till their time to play a part comes does it mean till the vibration on earth becomes conducive or in their range of frequency, what is it that vibrates soul/astral body. does their time to incarnate depend on the quality of their astral reserves i.e. maximum vibration they are able to reach in Confluence Age. If yes why is this discrimination, is this about free will, if yes why will a soul choose to not be born in golden and silver ages.


Baba says we get inheritance for complete cycle not just for Confluence Age, Golden Age and Silver Age but also for Copper Age and iron age. Does inheritance in copper and iron ages means being just worshipped as dieties or also implies that those yadgars(memorials) also fulfill our wishes on worshipping them in those ages.
If yes, then do we get material gains as well as spiritual gains of peace and happiness on worshipping them, most likely yes. Are the material and spiritual gains we get on praying to our memorials inheritance of copper and iron ages or do we feel any elevated state of mind when devotees pray to our memorial i.e. is it just that our service now to them(devotees) gives us the status of being a demigod/goddess/angel and it is not vice-versa i.e. devotees praying to our memorials doesn’t elevate our status. Most likely the cause is our efforts(purusharth) and punya(doing service and hence receiving blessings)[based on knowledge(gnan), Yoga(meditation), dharna(qualities) and service(seva)] now and result is what we receive in 4ages(golden, silver, copper & iron ages). i.e our contributions now are spread over 4ages in various ways, i.e. being born as dieties in golden and silver ages and being are depicted as memorials in copper and iron ages. When Baba says “apne bhakt par reham karo” it means our progress on spiritual path helps the devotees indirectly by fulfilling their wishes on praying to our memorials in Confluence Age and so in copper and iron ages. We are to devotees what Baba is to us i.e source of spiritual and material attainments.

Cycle: Also after incarnating initially or after some births some do penance/service/prayers and will be born as kings or as the mighty rich in next births, so is penance/service/prayers of any form a must for attainments, maybe yes it is always first u earn then u spend. So in penance/charity/service/prayers we get charged from cosmic bank and spend here. So how many reserves does the cosmic bank have, is the energy exchange between physical world and spiritual world mutual i.e after we get charged from cosmic bank how do we repay, is it through love towards self, family, society and environment if yes, is it possible that we always remain in state of love throughout The Cycle and always remain happy. Baba says once Golden Age starts we constantly consume our attainments(resources) and quality of life reduces from ~golden to ~silver in Silver Age and ~copper in Copper Age and ~iron in iron age. At the end of iron age Shiv Baba descends and teaches to transform our world from iron to Golden Age. If he sponsors the energy of transformation will his energy get reduced, do we store our downloaded energy in astral worlds namely brahmapuri, vishnupuri and shankarpuri. If brahmapuri is populated with our angelic bodies, vishnupuri with diety astral bodies what is Shankar puri populated with? Our saintly astral bodies of penance?. Is Subtle Region a reservoir/energy of souls. What about reservoirs of devotees, where is their energy stored. We download from Shiv Baba, devotees download from us, from where does ShivBaba download from? Cosmic bank, then is Shiv Baba an entity or a cosmic bank or a mould/antenna that connects us to cosmic bank

Are various dieties, demigods and angels various banks/reservoirs of energies, we store energies in those cosmic banks now and withdraw in the form of fulfilment of wishes of devotees and us in copperage and iron age or are they just moulds/antennas/keys to cosmic energy bank and operate in Confluence Age, Copper Age & iron age

Shiv Baba says he is responsible for sakshatkars(visions) for devotees in copper and iron ages so does that mean ShivBaba works throughout The Cycle.

Baba says he is not responsible the obstacles and difficulties and suffering we face in life , life is governed by Law of Karma & Shiv Baba gives knowledge to create good karma but he also gives energy of Yoga through which we can burn our old karma and old sankars so how come he isn’t tainted when he grants us energy, is it because he only teaches how and we benefit based on our own efforts.

energy of Shiv Baba: is energy of Shiv Baba different from the energy of saints, angels, godesses, religious fathers, BK souls, non-bk souls, souls of various religions and sects, atheists… it got to be. What is the difference is it in vibration level.

please share ur views..
i like Baba and his knowledge but few points are quite puzzling to me..

Post Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:10 am

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Here I have a doubt that if the religious fathers (founders of various religions and sects and cults) are not BK souls, how come the essence seems familiar to BK philosophy?

You yourself have answered below
I felt may be through word of mouth, literature & telepathy* [mansa seva-service through blessings and good wishes; when we do mansa seva we not only transmit positive energy(which results in material and spiritual attainments of the receiver) but also wisdom and sanskars ].

Thus the essence of BK philosophy, in various forms, gets transmitted to every soul resulting in various schools of thought. Thus we all contribute to human culture in our own way consciously/subconsciously.

Murli points:-
# Anth may dharm sthaapan aatmaayein aayengi , vah apni majil lengee, gyaan naheen lengi,. = In the end, souls of religious fathers will come. They will receive their goals, but will not adopt knowledge.
#) Anth may dharm sthaapan aatmaayein bhee salam karney ke liye aayenge = In the end , souls of religious fathers will come and salute.

There are both common and differences in Bk gyaan and in other religions. There are again common in BK gyaan as well as in Hinduism (Name of deity religion during bhaktimarg). So- there are both common and differences.

Baba says- in bhakti, when people worship some deities by believing them as God, ShivBaba does not give his vision to them, but gives of vision of those deities only. So- ShivBaba fulfills their good, pure emotions as per what their sanskaar/role in drama is.

In Post No. 170 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=14353&hilit=sanskaar#p14353 - Baba says- through advance party souls also, such service ia taking place.

Finally, the the form of gyaan (application ) will be refined. Instead of giving gyaan in same way to all, (this is what majority of Bks do), those who have discrimination power, will start filling the respective sanskaars in the respective souls. That will give highest efficiency and perfection.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Post Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:03 am

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i read that link, very detailed information, thankyou brother

Post Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:16 am

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few of my churnings viewtopic.php?f=25&t=581&p=2574#p2574
i somehow feel shivbaba is not a reservoir of energy but a key to access infinete cosmic energy, we all download cosmic energy daily but in the state of nirakaar i.e. seed form as is the form of shivbaba the access is very high and very pure, in that stage the energy transformed burns our past negative karma, past negative sanskars i.e purifies our soul as well as prakriti(environment) and other souls through us
kindly share ur views

Post Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:19 am

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Post Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:25 am

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about shivbaba's role of not taking birth viewtopic.php?f=25&t=538

Post Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:27 am

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getting spiritually charged viewtopic.php?f=32&t=545&p=2535#p2535

Post Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:32 am

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shiv baba's faculties other than power viewtopic.php?f=26&t=507&p=2459#p2459

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