Board index BK Section (BKs & New BK students only please) BK churning, realisations, and musings The knowledge, events, incidents and mysteries

The knowledge, events, incidents and mysteries

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 200) Something about "KARMAATHEETH" Stage:-

1) Most of the sakar murli points say- As soon as B Baba will become karmaateet state, he will leave the body, will become angel, will reside in subtle world.

2) SM 4-11-83(3):- Avasthaa sadaiv harshith rahni chaahiye. Baba ko bhi khyaalaath aati hain. Law kahte hain aayenge zaroor. AISEY NAHIN KI MAMMA BABA KOYI PARIPOORN HO GAYE. Paripoorn avasthaa toh anth may hogi. -34- [Mamma, rath, atom bomb]

= The stage should be constant happiness. Even Brahma Baba gets (some weak) thoughts. Law says- definitely (such thoughts) will come. It is not that Mamma- baba have become complete. Complete stage would be formed in the END.

3) Another sakar murli point says (almost in right words)- "Tum kitnaa bhee purushaarth karo, abhee karmaateet ban naheen saktey ho. Kyonki agar karmaatet banenge, toh paavan shareer chaahiye. Abhee toh paavan shareer mil naheen saktaa. Karmaateet toh anth may hee banenge" = Whatever effort you may put, you cannot become complete now. Because once you become complete, you need pure body. But, now one cannot get pure body. Hence you will become karmaateet only in the end."

4) Saaraa dinn agar Shivbaba kee yad rahey toh karmaateet sthithi aa jaayegee = If you have remembrance of Shivbaba the whole day, you will attain karmaateet stage.

5)An avyakt murli point says- Karmaateet maanaa karm ke prabhaav se, karm ke achchaayi aur buraayee ke prabhaav se mukt = Karmaateet means one who is not affected by actions or its fruit"

6)Karmyogi hee karmaateet sthithi ko praapt kar sakenge = One who is karmayogi only will attain karmaateet stage.

7) Murli 9-5-66 says: "सबसे पहेले मम्मा का अच्हा position बन गया . कर्मातित अवस्था को पा लिया . शारीर के सब दुःख दूर हो गए ."
[ " First and foremost Mama achieved the best position..she achieved the karmatit stage..she transcended all bodily sorrows."]

8)Murli 21-6-66 says: "तुमारी मम्मा सुक्ष्मवतन में गयी . उनका हिसाब-किताब स्थूल वतन से पूरा हुआ ."
[" Your Mama has ascended to the Subtle Regions. Her karmic accounts of the physical world ended."]

9)Lots of avyakt murli points say- Brahma Baba had attained number one position and karmaateet stage.

10)An avyakt murli point says(almost in right words)- "Adi Dev arthaath har shubh kaary ko shuru karnevaalaa. Ab bhee har shubh kaary kaa pahlaa hisaa Brahma Baap kaa hai" = "Adi Dev (first deity) means one who is the beginner of good deeds/acts. Even now, the first share in every good deed is Brahma Baba"

11)Murli Point also says- no one can get 100 marks. It is just reserved to Shivbaba. [Put in Post No. 128 ]

12)An avyakt murli point mostly says/hints that Mamma had taken birth in Nepal- (Not sure, but yet to find this).

13) An avyakt murli clearly says- "Agar Bahuth samay se sampoornataa kaa sanskaar hai, toh anth may sampoorn banenge = If one has sanskaar of perfection for LONG PERIOD, he will attain state of perfection in the end"
Initially I was not able to understand this murli point. But, later got some understanding.

# - For example, initially, a student would be - only STUDYING/LEARNING.
# - If his effort is good or OK, his study would reach to a considerable level, and then he would actually begin to SERVE or in other words would be DOING the job.
# - But, still he may be only an average performer. If his effort is honest, his performance would be continuously increasing. So, it may take few months to few years (depending on the person) for the person to do the job in EFFICIENT WAY and NATURALLY. At this time, the person becomes FULLY INDEPENDENT and CONFIDENT and attains even FULL WILL POWER. In one way- this can be said- The person has STEPPED INTO the KARMAATEET STAGE. But, still it is NOT FINAL/COMPLETE STAGE.
# - Even after becoming a good performer/worker, a person has to continue doing the service for few or SEVERAL YEARS. Then only it can be called as complete personality. [real karmaateeth stage]

# For example, a law student may become lawyer at the age of 20 yrs, an efficient lawyer at the age of 30 years, when he becomes FULLY CONFIDENT and INDEPENDENT (which can be called as first step in karmaateet stage). Then if he practices and serves the society for a decade or a couple of decades, his life can be said as complete one or perfection in REAL SENSE.
So- the person should be staying/serving the society in the karmaateet stage for considerable period, then only that stage will becomes SANSKAAR in practical.

That is why Baba also says- "Sampoornataa ki kuch ghadiyaan naheen. Sampoornataa ki jeevan hai = Complete stage is not of few seconds, but it is of LIFE".


14) As per murli point No. 2) and 3), no one can become karmaateet before end. But, as per 7), 8), 9) etc, both Mamma and B baba have become karmaateet. We may ignore the murli point No. 2) as Baba has said- "Old points will not come into use". [Given in Post No. 37].
Also- Baba might have said so (Mamma and Baba will become karmaateet only in the end- to cool down some children not to feel inferiority- especially for some who had been weak or jealous.

15)When I read the murli point No. 10) I was surprised a little. Because "If B Baba is karmaateet, how or why should he get share even now? Then he is still on the path of earning, is it not?"
But, later felt as- "Even in today's world, there are multimillionaires. They are still earning. But, they do not feel about it. Their life style or carefree stage is not going to get affected by what they earn. [Some may be exception as this is iron aged world, people are greedy and never satisfied]. Money just/still gets deposited into their account. But, they are not going to eat what all they earn. They just put it into business in which others also earn.

So- even B Baba's account may be still earning. But, B Baba does not need it. It will be just lying there. That will be used by others (for the World Benefit).

16)Now, if Mamma has taken body, how would be that karmaateet stage? One who is not affected by karma or its fruit is a karmaateet stage. (Like deities are not affected). She has taken body just for service.

17)Now- if we question who is No. 01- Is it Brahma Baba or Mamma?

a) This is not an issue, but just for discussion]. Sometimes Baba says Mamma is no. one, sometimes B Baba as no. one. Usually mothers are placed ahead. Baba sometimes places even children ahead of mamma and B Baba. [Post No. 12- viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&start=10 ]

b) SM 4-8-73(1):- Brahma ek laadlaa bachcha hai Shiv kaa. To ek daadaa niraakaar. Ek unkaa bachchaa saakaar, Prajapita Brahma. Phir unkey hain BBKyaan. Tum BK bane ho ShivBaba se varsaa lene. ShivBaba kahte hain aise2 tum koyi ko samjhaavo. Yaad zaroor ShivBaba ko karnaa hai jis_se swarg kaa varsaa miltaa hai. Aur koyi ko yaad karenge to nark kaa varsaa milegaa. Yah toh samajh kee baath hai. Varsa Baap se nahin, daadaa se miltaa hai. Swarg kaa rchitaa, gyaandaataa vah hai. ShivBaba sunaate hain Brahma dwara. Phir yah Brahma bhi sun lete hain. Brahma ke phir pahlee2 bachchi Saraswati gaayi huyi hai. BK Saraswati Jagadamba kitnee gaayi huyi hai. Brahma se bhi jyaadaa ShivBaba se varsaa leti hai. Isliye pahle Lakshmi, phir Narayan gaayaa jaataa hai. Tum jaante ho hum Jagadamba aur Jagatpita ke bachche thah_re. To kyon na daadaa se varsaa leve. Hum BKKyaan Daadaa, potre, potriyaan hain. Bas. Doosree teesree peedhi nahin hai. Tar_potre kuch nahin. Daadaa ko koun yaad nahin akregaa. BKKyaan kahlaave aur Daadaa ko yaad na kare to unko kitnaa moorkh kahenge? Aise bhi moork hain jo daadaa ko yaad bhi nahin karte hain. Jitnaa yaad karenge, utnaa vikarm vinaash honge. – 135 [vimp]

= Brahma is the only most favorite child of Shiv. ...... First(Greatest) child of Brahma is said to be Saraswathi (in scriptures). How much praise is there of BK Saraswathi Jagadamba. SHE TAKES MORE PROPERTY THAN BRAHMA FROM SHIVBABA. Hence first it is said as lakhsmi, then narayan. .....

Shivbaba many times says- MY only child is Brahma. But, also says- Mamma takes more property than Brahma. It is like contradicting.

c) There is an avyakt murli point- Brahma Baap ne bachche aur Mamma ko aage rakhaa. Phir bhee khud hee number one rahe na = Brahma Baba kept Mamma, and children in front. But, still he only was number one, is it not?

Also- from the murli points given in Post No. 111 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=12408&hilit=churpur#p12408, I believe first prince Krishna of Golden Age (B Baba) is no. one as he is taken as reference for the kalpa.

d) Baba has also said- "position of females should be kept ahead. name of mamma should be made famous.".

So- at present I believe- Brahma Baba only is the real number one soul. Anyhow, these are not important for either putting effort or for service.
Last edited by mbbhat on Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 201) One Rupee of Poor = One thousand Rupees of Rich:-

1)Baba usually says- "One Rupee of Poor person is equal to One thousand Rupees of Rich person". Let us see how is that. Suppose say- there is need to print some phamplets or arrange some hall for Baba's service, or build a building. Now, a rich person can give/share/donate more money, and that would make the service easier. So, that is going to be more useful is it not? But, actually, we should see it in trikaaladarshi (see past, present and future effects).

If poor people donate money, the sister incharge (or the students) of the centre will not get influenced by them and all will be moving care-freely as usual. But, when a rich person donates a large amount, there is a chance that the sister incharge and the BKs getting influenced in NAME and FORMs of the donors. This will reduce yoga/yaad of others and weaken the natural atmosphere.*

But, if the rich person has no ego, and a simple person or a good yogi, then it will not affect negatively. That is why Baba also says-

2)Yahaan pasie kee baatein naheen. Sahukaaron ko vaa gareebon ko- donon ko equal chance hai. Lekin saahukaaron ko paise kaa nashaa hai, padhney ke liye fursath naheen hai. = There is no matter of money here. The chances are equal for both rich and poor persons. But, rich people have intoxication of money, they do not have time to study.

3) SM 13-08-72(3):- Hum pakkaa vyaapaari bhee hai. Aise thode hee phaaltoo lenge jo phir denaa pade. Tumhaaree mattaa- sattaa hai. Isliye bholaanaath kahaa jaataa hai. Garib te garib hee maalaa may piroye sakte hain. Saaraa Purushaarth par madar hai. Ismay paise kee baath naheen hai. Padhaayi kee baath hai. School may garib ka bachcha athvaa lakhpati ka bachcha padhega. Padhaayi toh ek hee hotee hai. Paise kee baath naheen rahtee. Parantu garib padhaayi may achchaa dhyaan denge. Kyonki unko to paise chaahiye. Saahukaar ko nashaa rahtaa hai.

= ....Everything depends on effort. Here, it is not matter of money. It is matter of study. In school children of both poor and rich study. The study is same for both. Question of money does not come there. But, poor people give more importance to study. Because they need money. Rich people have intoxication of money.


4) Real/Best poverty is to sacrifice main-pann (ego) or becoming trustee. That is why baba also says-

5)Jab tum trustee banthay ho, tab Baap tumhaaraa sweekaar karenge = Father will accept your donations when you become trustee. [Till there, even if we surrender anything, the usefulness or fruit will be in percentage as per our cleanliness in the heart].

Baba also say- Jiskaa Bhagavaan sweekaar karey, vah sabsey badaa Bhaagyavaan hai = The one whose offerings are accepted by God is the most fortune.

6)Murli Point- Agar 30, 40 centre kholey, toh bhee baap ke account may jamaa naheen hotaa hai. Agar nirvighn centre hai toh hee Baap ke register may jamaa hota hai = Even if you open 30 to 40 centres, if they are not free from obstacles of Maya, they will not get registered in Father's account. The centres which are nirvighn (free from obstacles), only get registered in father's account.

7) Baba also says- Mahatw sevaa kaa naheen, sevaa bhaav kaa hai = The service that is done is not significant, but the feeling in which the service is that really matters/accounts. And, similarly,

8) Mahatw yog kaa naheen, yogi jeevan kaa hai = How much yog/yaad what you have done is not significant, how much yaad you have adopted into life is the one that matters.

9)Another murli point- Samjho, tumney bhandaarey may paisaa daala. Aadhaa ghantey may vinaash huvaa. Tumhaaraa toh safal huvaa na. = For example, you have put money in Baba's bhandar/box. In half an hour, destruction took place. (so money was not actually used or could not be used at all). But, your wealth got safal(accounted), is it not?

10)So, actually/finally, it is only our thoughts that are going to be useful in service. Because purification of either soul or the nature is going to happen only by pure/elevated thoughts. And, what all we give or donate to Baba, they are not really ours, we have received it from this world/nature only.

Also, in the earnings of rich people, usually poor people are exploited in one or other ways directly or indirectly.

11) Another:-Tension se kee huyi kamaayi tension hee paidaa karegaa = The money earned with tension will create tension only.

12)Baba also says- Ek baar Mamma-baba kaaha, varse kaa hakdaar banaa = Once you say Mamma-Baba, you become eligible for the property (at least to some extent, because the eternal seed is put there, some gyaan sanskaar got formed there).

* - For example, B Baba had donated whole of his wealth to yagya which was a huge or good amount. But, when we think of B baba, we do not feel the money he donated, we feel his stage or Shivbaba HIMSELF. Even though Mamma did not donate/have any money, we do not feel Mamma as lower, but equal to B Baba. So, it is actually the stage that really matters. All the physical things/property or karma what we do if they aid in making our stage better, it means they are being used properly.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 202)Best murli points on Yaad Remembrance/Yaad:-

1)SM 2-2-71(3):- Yah nahin samajhte hain ki humaari aatma bindi samaan hai. SHIVBABA BHI BINDI HAI. HUM BINDI KO PARAMPITA PARMATMA BINDI KO YAAD KARNAA HAI. Aisey samajh jab yaad kare tab vikarm vinaash ho.

= They do not know that we souls also are like point and Shivbaba is also a point. I, the POINT REMEMBER THE SUPREME SOUL POINT. IF REMEMBRANCE IS DONE IN THIS WAY, SINS WOULD BE BURNT.

2)SM 1-11-83(2, 3):- Koyi paap na karo. Nashtmoha bano. Kitni mehnath hai. IS MAMMA BABA KO BHI YAAD NAHI KARNAA HAI. INKO YAAD KARNE SE JAMAA NAHIN HOGAA. INMAY SHIVBABA AATE HAIN. TOH YAAD SHIVBABA KO KARNAA HAI. AISEY NAHIN INMAY SHIVBABA HAI, ISLIYE INKI YAAD RAHE. NAHIN, SHIVBABA KO VAHAAN YAAD KARNAA HAI. Shivbaba vahaan rahte hain. Shivbaba yahaan aakar sunaate hain. Parantu humko yaad vahaan karnaa hai. Yahaan nahin. BUDDHI DOOR2 TAK JAANI CHAAHIYE. Yahaan nahin. Yah shivbaba toh chalaa jaayegaa. SHIVBABA IS EK MAY HI AATE HAIN. MAMMA MAY TOH NAHIN AAYENGE. Tum jaante ho yah Baba kaa rath hai. PARANTU INKEY CHAREY KO NAHIN DEKHNAA HAI. BUDDHI VAHAAN LATKI RAHE. YAHAAN BUDDHI RAHNEY SE ITNAA MAJAA NAHIN AAYEGAA. Yah koyi yaatraa nahin huyi. YATRA KI HADH TUMAARI VAHAAN HAI. AISEY NAHIN KI BABA KO DEKHTE HO KYONKI INMEY SHIV HAI. PHIR OOPAR JAANEY KI TEV TOOT PAD JAATAA HAI. APNI DESTINATION KO YAAD KARNAA HAI. BAAP KAHTE HAIN MUJHE VAHAAN YAAD KARO. BUDDHIYOG VAHAAN LAGAAVO. KAYI BUDDDHOO SAMAJHTE HAIN KI BABA KO HI BATH DEKHEY. Arey- buddhi ko sweet home may lagaanaa hai. Shivbaba toh sadaiv rath par rah na sakey. Yahaan aakar sirf service karenge. Savari li, service kar phir utar padenge. Byel par sadaiv savaari rah na sakey. Toh buddhi vahaan rahni chaahiye. Baba aaye hain, murli chalaakar chaley jaayenge. Inki buddhi bhi vahaan rahti hai. Raastaa barobar pakadni chahiye. Nahin toh ghadi2 patti se gir padthey hain. Yah toh thodaa samay hai. Inmey shivbaba hi nahin hogaa toh yaad kyon karenge. MURLI TOH YAH BHI SUNAA SAKTEY HAIN. INMAY KAB HAIN, KAB NAHIN HAIN. KAB REST LETE HAIN. Tum yaad vahaan karte raho. Kab2 Baba khyaal karte hain drama anusaar kalp pahley aaj ke din jo murli chalaayi thi, vo hi jaakar chalaavoongaa. Tum bhi kah saktey ho kalp pahley Baap se jitnaa varsaa liyaa hai us anusaar murli chalaayenge. Shivbaba kaa naam zaroor lenaa padey. Parantu aisey kisko aayegaa nahin. Baap zaroor yaad aayegaa. Baap kaa hi parichay denaa hai. AISEY NAHIN SIRF INKO BAITH DEKHNAA HAI. BABA NE SAMJHAAYAA HAI SHIVBABA KO YAAD KARO. NAHIN TOH PAAP HO JAAYEGAA. Parantu Baap ko yaad karnaa hai. Nahin toh vikarm vinaash nahin honge. Badi manjil hai. -29-, 30 [yaad, rath, drushti, sakar-niraakaar, murli] = SM 3-10- 2008

= Do not commit any sin. Become free from attachment. How great work it is. You should not remember even this Mamma, Baba. If you remember these, you will not get any benefit. Shiv Baba enters this one and so you have to remember Shiv Baba. It is not that because Shiv Baba comes in this one, you have to remember this one. No, you have to remember Shiv Baba there. Shivbaba resides there. Shivbaba comes here and explains. But we should remember there. Not here. Your intellect should go far away, not remain here. This Shivbaba will go away anyway. Shiv Baba only enters THIS ONE. SHIVBABA WILL NOT COME IN MAMMA. You know that this is Baba's Chariot, but you mustn't see his face. Let your intellect dangle up there. You won't enjoy yourself as much by keeping your intellect down here. This (keeping intellect here) is not the pilgrimage. The limit of your pilgrimage is up there. It is not that you look at Baba (BBaba) because Shiv Baba is in him. In that case, your habit of going up above would be broken. You should remember your destination. Father says: Remember Me up there. Connect your intellect's Yoga there. Some foolish people (buddhus) think that they should just sit here and continue to look at Baba. Oh, but you have to connect your intellect to the sweet home. Shiv Baba cannot be constantly sitting in the Chariot. He simply comes here and does service. He takes His Chariot, does service and then leaves the Chariot. He cannot always be riding the bull. So, your intellect should remain there. Baba comes, speaks the Murli and then leaves. This one's intellect also remains up there. You should follow the right path. Otherwise, you will repeatedly fall off-track. This (service)is only for short period. (After that) when Shiv Baba were not in him, why would you remember this one? Even this one can speak the Murli. Sometimes (Shiv) is in this one and sometimes not. Sometimes HE takes rest. You do remembrance there. Sometimes (Shivbaba) thinks- what I had said in previous kalpa, the same thing I will say in the murli today. You also can say- how much property we had received in previous kalpa , accordingly, baba will play/narrate murli. One should definitely mention name of ShivBaba. But, no one can do so. (If you mentin name of Shivbaba in between) you will remember Shivbaba. You should give introduction of father. It is not that you just have to sit and look at this one. Baba has explained: REMEMBER SHIV BABA. OTHERWISE SINS WILL BE COMMITTED. You have to remember the Father. Otherwise, your sins will not be absolved.

Sometimes while doing yoga, BKs just gaze at each other (not in a natural way in sakshi stage or spiritual intoxication of Alaf or Bey) but looks as if more a physical effort. This will not yield much result.

But, if really surrender ourselves, then, there is no confusion. Remembrance of either corporeal or the incorporeal would take us to the goal in easiest way.

3)AM 12-9-77(2):- Ab beeti so beeti kar sadaiv aisaa samjho main bachchaa hun, baap ke saath hun. Yah samajhne se vah bachpan ki jeevan smruti may rahegi. Jitnaa yah smruti rahegaa, toh us_se madad milegi. Phir mushkil kaary sahaj ho jaayegaa. AB SE APNE KO EK SECOND BHI BAAP SE ALAG NA SAMJHO. Sadaiv samjho- BAAP KE SAATH BHI HAI, aur Baap ke haath may meraa haath hai. Agar koyi bade ke haath may haath hota hai, toh chote ki sthiti bephikar, nishchint rahti hai. Toh samajhnaa chahiye har karm may Bapdada meraa saathi bhi hai, aur humaarey is alowkik jeevan kaa haath unkey haath hain arthaath alowkik jeevan unkey havaaley hain. Jimmevaari unki ho jati. Sab bhoj Baap ke oopar rakh apney ko halka kar dena hai. Bhoj hee na hogaa toh mushkil lagegaa? Bhoj utaarney kaa vaa mushkil ko sahaj karne kaa saadhan hai baap kaa haath aur saath. Yah to sahaj hai na. Phir chahe Baap smruti may aaye, chaahe daadaa smruti may aaye. Baap ki smruti aayegi toh saath may daadaa ki bhi rahegee hi. Daadaa ki smruti se baap ki smruti bhi rahegi hee. ALAG HO NAHIN SAKTE. Agar sakar snehi ban jate ho, to bhi aur sabse buddhi toot javegi na. Sakar snehi ban_naa bhi kam baath nahin hai. SAKAR SNEH BHI SARV SNEH SE, ANEK SAMBANDHON SE BUDDHIYOG TUDAA DETE HAIN. Toh anek taraf se tod ek taraf jodney kaa saadhan to hai na. Sakar se niraakar zaroor yaad aavegaa. Sakar se sneh bhi tab paidaa huvaa jab baap daadaa donon kaa saath huvaa na. Agar Baap kaa saath na hota to sakar itnaa priy thode hee huvaa. Jaise Bapdada donon saath hain, vaise aapki yaad bhi saath2 ho jaavegi. -17- [yaad, saath]

= ….You should think that Bapdada is combined with me in every action. And, the hand and company of this alowkik life is with them, means this alowkik life is in their custody. Then the responsibility is theirs. Make yourself light by putting all the burden on father. When there is no burden at all, then would there be any difficulty? The method to release burden is hand and company of father. This is easy, is it not? THEN LET FATHER COMES INTO YOUR MIND, OR DADA. WHEN FATHER’S REMEMBRANCE COMES, THAT OF DADA ALSO WOULD EXIST. FROM REMEMBRANCE OF DADA, EVEN THAT OF FATHER WOULD EXIST. THEY CANNOT BE SEPARATED. Even from the Love towards the corporeal would cut intellect from the rest, is it not? To develop love towards sakar (B baba) is also not small. Even the love towards corporeal will break all the other loves, and relations from the intellect. …. From the sakar, remembrance of niraakaar would definitely come. The love towards sakar also developed only when father and dada became combined, is it not? If company of father had not been there, the corporeal would not have been so loveful. Like father and dada both are together, even your remembrance would become together.

The purpose of Baba saying "Do not remember Brahma Baba or mamma" is- some children totally forget Shivbaba and just get over-attached to Brahma Baba or Mamma. For them Baba had said, you will get nothing by remembering Brahma Baba or Mamma. For example- Baba has once said- subtle world does not exist, but later clarified that subtle world DOES exist, and also had clarified why he had said so earlier (that subtle world does not exist). - Post No. 50 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=5623&hilit=chote#p5623

So, if the foundation(Alaf and Bey = Shivbaba and property, then use any method for remembrance without any hesitation or confusion. Automatically we will move to the higher level of realization.

Most probably, this post will be deleted and the above murli point would be inserted at the relevant place - post No. 70, after finding few more related points.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 203) Why Viraat Roop is made of Vishnu not Brahma?

1)One reason- Baba says- as braahmins are incomplete, their titles are shown to deities.

2)Another reason- Vishnu's part is much larger duration than Brahma and it is Vishnu who rules the world, whereas Brahma rules only braahmins.

SM 17-8-2000:- Sabsey jaasti part kahenge Vishnu ka. 84 JANMON KA VIRAAT ROOP BHEE VISHNU KA DIKHAATE HAIN, NA KI BRAHMA KA. Viraat Roop Vishnu kaa hee banathay hain. Kyonki pahley2 Prajapita Brahma kaa naam dharthay hain. BRAHMA KAA BHEE BAHUT THODAA PART HAI. ISLIYE VIRAAT ROOP VISHNU KAA DIKHAATE HAIN. Chaturbhuj bhee Vishnu kaa banaa dete. Vaastav may yah alankaar tumhaare hain. Yah bhee bade samajhney kee baatein hain. Koyi manushy samjhaanaa na sakey. BAAP NAYE2 TAREEKE SE SAMJHAATE RAHTE HAIN. Baap kahte hain Trimurti Shiv Bahagavaanuvaach right hai na. VISHNU, BRAHMA AUR SHIV. AUR ISMAY BHEE PRAJAPITA BRAHMA HEE BACHCHAA HAI. Vishnu ko bachchaa naheen kahenge. Bhal creation kahte hain, parantu rachnaate Brahma ki hogi. Jo phir bhinn naam roop lete hain. Mukhy part toh unkaa hai. BRAHMA KA PART BHEE THODAA HAI IS SAMAY KAA. VISHNU KAA KITNAA SAMAY RAAJY HAI. Saare jhaad kaa beej roop hai Shivbaba. [collected from others] - BVS - VVIMP

= Highest part is of Vishnu. In the Viraat Roop of 84 births, Vishnu is shown, not Brahma. The Viraat Form is made on Vishnu. Because first he takes name PPB. PART OF BRAHMA IS ALSO VERY LESS. Hence Viraat Roop is made of Vishnu. Even the four arms is shown to Vishnu. Actually, they belong to you. This is also important things to be understood. No human can explain this. FATHER KEEPS ON EXPLAINING BY VARIOUS WAYS. Father says- Trimurti Shiv Bahagavaanuvaach is right, is it not? Vishnu, Brahma and Shiv (Usually Baba says- B,V,Shankar or B,V, Shiv). AND, IN THESE PPB ONLY IS CHILD. VISHNU CANNOT BE CALLED AS CHILD. OF COURSE, IT IS SAID CREATION, BUT IT WOULD BE OF(THROUGH) BRAHMA, IS IT NOT, WHO THEN TAKES DIFFERENT NAME AND FORMS. MAIN PART IS OF HIM(VISHNU). THE PART OF BRAHMA IS ALSO VERY LESS, OF THIS PERIOD. HOW LONG KINGDOM OF VISHNU IS. The seed of the whole tree is ShivBaba. –BVS- imp

Few Notes:-

1)Actually the soul of Vishnu or Brahma is same. Still Baba says- "Part of Brahma is very less". Baba is comparing both the parts. Similarly, many times baba says- "part of Shankar is very less". So, I believe activities and duration of Shankar would be very less. Since/If Shankar represents/is angelic body of a karmaateet soul, then its part can be less. [More points on Shankar are given in Post No. 98].

2)Also note- "Father keeps on explaining various ways". This is why sometimes Baba says- Shiv cannot be called as Prajapita, Brahma is Prajapita. Shiv cannot be called as GGGF, Brahma is GGGF. But, at some places, Baba has said- Shiv is also Prajapita and Shiv is INCORPOREAL GRAND FATHER. (Post No. 62 and 178)
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 129
Location: Bangalore
Link with BKs: In Contact
Shankar's role is during the transformation from Narayan to Vishnu. One has to die alive to realise the importance of "life and love " that keeps the drama cycle rotating. There is so much similarity to the actual scriptures describing kailash mountain, meditation, third eye, Parvathi, Kama Dahana, etc. - here, Baba says it is a very steep climb and don't fall down. On the top of kailash mountain is the final stage they say, while here one can attain that stage sitting in his own house, but there is so much significant similarities between both.

Vishnu is not the actual Shiva but only His child. Child can reveal the Father.
Feeling Great !
No Matter What

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 204) Prajapita is not SEED, but the other religious fathers are:-

1)17-10-2000(2):- Samjho koyi Christian hai, to unhon ka beejroop CHRIST thahraa. Tumhaaraa BEEJROOP KOUN hai? BAP, kyonki Bap hee AAKAR swarg kaa STHAAPAN karte hain Brahma dwaaraa. BRAHMA KO HEE PRAJAPITA KAHAA JAATAA HAI. RACHTAA NAHEEN kahenge. In dwaaraa bacchje adopt kiye jaate hain. Brahma ko bhee create karte hain na. Bap aakar pravesh kar yah rachte hain. ShivaBaba kahte hain tum mere bacche ho. Brahma ko bhee kahte hain tum mere sakari bacche ho.

= For example, there are Christians. Their SEED FORM is Christ. Who is your seed form? Father. Because father only comes and establishes heaven through Brahma. Brahma only is called as Prajapita, NOT CREATOR. Through him, children are created. Brahma is also created, is it not? Father enters and creates. Shivbaba says- you are my children. Even to Brahma, HE says- you are my CORPOREAL CHILD.

2) There is another murli point which clearly says- Prajapita ko beej naheen kahenge = Prajapita cannot be called as SEED.

3)The difference between establishment of deity religion and other religions is- other religions are created by pure souls, so no need of God during that time, hence the respective religious fathers are SEED of their religions. But, in case of deity religion, it is starting from all IMPURE SOULS. So, God and the chariot both together play the roles. Hence sometimes Baba says- Brahma is creator, sometimes not. So, the context should be understood properly. [Refer to post No. 23 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&start=20 ]

4)Baba also says- I adopt scripture Gita. But there is no such adoptions of other scriptures. [Refer to post No. 11 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&start=10 ]

5)In another murli point, Baba also says- "GGGF Brahma is father to all the religious fathers". Now, how then Prajapita is not seed?
The simple logic here is- the rider is the SEED, not the CHARIOT. So, in THIS CONTEXT, Prajapita does not get title SEED. That is why Baba also says- the real SEED/CREATOR is only ONE, HIMSELF, no one else. But, in different contexts, that title goes to respective religious heads.

6)Also, refer to Post No. 99 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=12335&hilit=sanaatan#p12335 . So, the context in which Baba says- is to be understood. Brahma is father to all, even religious fathers, but, at that time, he would be dependent on the real SEED God, that is why Baba says- part of Brahma and Shiv go combined.

But, when the physical establishment of establishment takes place at their own respective times, each religious father is independent of either God or Prajapita Brahma, as they would already be pure and be playing role by themselves.

# Post No. 205) Why angels (Angelic forms or bodies) are not worshiped much?

Angels/Faristas or angelic bodies are not much worshiped. Few thoughts on this.

1) Except God, all others are recognized through body only.

SM 10-3-82(1):- Atma jab sharir may pravesh karti hai to andar churpur hoti hai. Maaloom padtaa hai andar atma ne pravesh kiyaa hai, bachche ke organs chalney lage. Yah baatein achchi reeti samajhni hai aur jo bhi manushy vah koyi aisey nahin kahte hain ki hum atma tumko samjhaate hain. VAH PRASIDDH HAIN SHARIR SE. YAH SHIVBABA BIGAR SHARIR PRASIDDH HAI. Vichitr hai na.Unko apnaa sharir nahin hai. SHARIRDHAARI KO KAB BHAGAVAAN NAHIN KAHNAA CHAAHIYE. STHOOL VA SOOKSHM KOYI BHI HO. -76- [Shivbaba, BVS, WOT]

= ...... Others are famous through body. But, this Shivbaba is famous without body. He is vichitr, is it not. He has no body. Bodily personalities can never be called as Bhagavaan, either physical or subtle...........

2)Angels have just body of light. So, still cannot be recognized. So, corporeal body has to be shown to human souls to be recognized. Even the end stage yaadgaars - Durga, Ganesh, etc- even though they will not have that form (like 6 or 8 hands shown to Durga, etc) vision of such corporeal picture/form only would be given and that form only would be worshiped. Hence any human soul or personality would be worshiped as CORPOREAL FORM only [apart from saligram].
Even in saaligram, there is no way to recognize a PARTICULAR soul. Refer post No. 107 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=12392&hilit=101+#p12392 .

3)Even to differentiate between Shiv and saaligrams, people make Shivling as bigger size, and the saaligraams smaller. Else, if just one LING is shown it represents the one and the only one unique, MOST BELOVED ALMIGHTY SHIVABABA.

4)In post No. 107 above, Baba has said- there is no way to differentiate between- Brahma, Saraswati and other children - in their saaligram forms. (so, mostly it would be true even in the angelic forms as well). Of course, the degree of radiation of the respective point of light souls (or the angelic bodies) would be numberwise, but, that cannot be physically depicted as a corporeal picture or image to worship.

5)So, to worship, the PHYSICAL/CORPOREAL forms like Lakshmi, Narayan, Krishna, Radha, etc only are shown or deities shown with 4, 6 or 8 PHYSICAL hands.

6)Hence, usually most of the times, even during giving vision, ShivBaba would show to the devotees the corporeal form only either in bhaktimarg, or in Conf. Age. [Anyhow, this is my own churning, so limited to individual capacity of an ordinary number-wise soul].
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 206) When will we become Knowledgeful/Karmaateeth?

1) SM 17-3-89(2):- Jab kisi ko samjhaate ho toh bhee aise samjho- hum bhaayiyon ko samjhaate hain. Yahee drushti rahe- ismey hee bhaaree mehnath hai. Mehnath se hee oonch pad miltaa hai. Baap bhee aise dekhenge. Baap kee nazar bhee bhrukuti ke beech may jaayegi. Atma toh chotee bindi hai. Sunti bhee vahee hai. Tum Baap ko bhee bhrukuti ke beech may dekhenge. Baap bhee yahaan hai to bhaayi (Brahma ki atma) bhee yahaan hai. AISEY BUDDHI MAY RAHNE SE TUM BHEE GYAAN SAAGAR KE BACHCHE GYAAN SAAGAR BAN JAATE HO. Tumhaare liye toh bahut sahaj hai. Gruhasth vyavahaar may rahnevaalon ko yah avasthaa zaraa mushkil hai. Sunkar ghar chale jaate hain. Vahaan kaa vaataavaran hee aur hai. Yahaan sahaj hai. Baba yukti bahut sahaj bataate hain. APNEY KO ATMA SAMJHO, BAAP KO YAAD KARO. YAH BHEE BHAAYI HAI. IS DRUSHTI SE KARM BANDHAN SE ATEET HO JAAYENGE. SHAREER BHEE BHOOL JAATAA HAI. SIRF BAAP HEE YAAD RAHTAA HAI. ISMEY MEHNATH KARTE RAHENGE TAB PASS WITH HONOUR HONGE. AISEE AVASTHAA MAY VIRLAA HEE KOYI RAHTAA HAI. VISHW KAA MAALIK BHEE VAHEE BANTE HAIN. 8 RATNON KEE MAALAA HAI NA. To purushaarth karnaa hai. Oonch pad paanevaale kaise bhee karke purushaarth zaroor karte honge. ISMEY DOOSREE KUCH BHEE BAATEIN NIKALTEE NAHEEN HAI. Bhaayi2 ki drushti sneh aur sambandh ho jaataa hai. Drushti vah jam jaatee hai. Isliye baap kahte hain tumko bahut guhy2 baatein sunaataa hun. Ismey abhyaas karnaa mehnath kaa kaam hai. Yahaan bhee baithay ho toh apney ko atma samjho. Atma hee suntee hai. Sun_ney_vaali atma ko tum dekhte ho. -104- [yaad, gyan, pbks, Kings, PM, mala]

= When you explain to someone, think- we explain to brothers. Let there be this vision.There is great effort in this. From effort only one will get highest status. Father also will see so. Vision of father also will go to centre of forehead. Soul is a small point. It is the soul that listens. You will see father also in between the forehead. Father is also here, the brother (Brahma) is also here. BY HAVING THIS IN MIND, YOU CHILDREN OF OCEAN OF KNOWLEDGE ALSO WILL BECOME OCEAN OF KNOWLEDGE. It is very easy for you (those who are in centres). For those who are in house hold path- for them it is a little bit difficult (to achieve). They listen and go to their home,. The atmosphere itself is different there. Here, it is easy. Father explains many yuktis (methods). CONSIDER YOURSELF AS SOUL AND REMEMBER THE FATHER. THIS IS ALSO A BROTHER. THIS VISION/AATTITUDE WILL MAKE YOU FREE FROM KARM BANDHAN*. BODY IS FORGOTTEN. JUST FATHER'S REMEMBRANCE ONLY WILL REMAIN. CONTINUOUS EFFORT OF THIS WILL MAKE YOU PASS WITH HONOUR. VERY FEW ONLY REMAIN IN THIS STAGE. THEY ONLY BECOME WORLD EMPERORS. THE MALA IS OF 8, IS IT NOT. So, you should put effort. Those who are going to get high status will put effort by any means. IN THIS STAGE, NO OTHER MATTER (of conflicts) EMERGES. BROTHER2 VISION MAKES US LOVEFUL AND RELATED TO EACH OTHER. THIS VISION THEN BECOMES STABLE. HENCE FATHER SAYS- I TEACH YOU DEEP MATTERS. TO DO THIS PRACTICE IS THE DIFFICULTY/EFFORT. Even when you are sitting here, consider yourself as a soul. Soul only listens. You see the soul that is listening.

2) Baba has also said- More we become soul conscious and remember Baba, more the lock of intellect will open.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 207) Ruh- Ruhaan (Spiritual chit-chat) between ShivBaba and Brahma Baba:-

In trance messages- Dadi Gulzar would be sometimes saying- "ShivBaba spoke to B Baba", sometimes "Brahma Baba speaks to ShivBaba". Some have asked in the forum - how she could recognize/discriminate between ShivBaba and B Baba, since both are in single body. But, it is explained wonderfully in the following murli point.

AM 19-03-2000:- Aaj vatan may bapdada ki aapas may rooh-runaah thi. Kaise ruh-ruhaan karenge? Donon kaise ek- do may ruh-ruhaan karenge? Jaise yahaan is duniyaa may aap log mono acting karthay ho na. Bahuth achche karthay ho. Toh aap logon ki saakaari duniyaa may toh EK AATMAA DO PART BAJAATHI HAI aur BAPDADA DO ATMAAYEIN EK SHAREER HAI. Fark huvaa na. Toh bahuth majey kee baath hoti hai.

= Today, there was 'ruh-rihaan' (meeting, chit-chat) between bapdada. How do they do 'ruh-rihaan'? How both of them do chit-chat with themselves? In this world, you do mono-acting, is it not? Very nicely you do. So, in your corporeal world, ONE SOUL PLAYS ROLE OF TWO, and Bapdada are TWO SOULS AND(IN) ONE BODY. There is a difference, is it not? It is of great enjoyment.

In mono-acting, tone of the speech and gesture of the person makes others realize whose part is being played. Similarly, Bapdada would be doing something to make Dadi Gulzar discriminate between them.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
Post No. 208) Reason for keeping photo of B Baba:-

Usually in sakar murlis, Baba says- Do not keep photo of B Baba. Do not even take photo of B baba. That is to prevent getting caught in physical name and form of him. But-

1) SM 2-5-77(1):- Abhi Shivbaba rachnaa rach rahe hain na. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA KA BHI CHITR ALAG HONA CHAHIYE. Trimurti brahma kahte hain. Parantu uskaa koyi arth hee nahin. -12 [prajapita]

= Now, ShivBaba is doing process of creation. SEPARATE PHOTO OF PRAJAPITA BRAHMA IS NECESSARY. .....

For service activities- there is need to highlight chariot. So, separate photo of B baba has to be used.

In avyakt murli, baba has given freedom either to remember just Brahma or Shivbaba. Because B baba had been complete, and now he has no physical body, so no risk of getting caught in sakar form. - refer Post No. 202.

2)AM 31-12-2000:- Agar dekhnaa hai toh Brahma Baap ko dekho. Ismay doosrey ko na dekho. Yah lakshy rakho. Jaise Brahma Baap kaa slogan thaa “Otay se Arjun” arthaath jo swayam ko nimitt banaayegaa, vah number one Arjun ho jaayegaa. Brahma baap Arjun number one banaa. Agar doosrey ko dekh_karke karenge, toh number one naheen banenge. Numberwaar may aayenge, number one naheen banenge. Aur jab haath uth_vaathay hain, toh sab numberwaar may haath utjaathay hain yaa number one may uthaathay hain? Kyaa lakshy rakhenge? Akahnd gun_daani, atal, koyi kitnaa bhee hilaavey, hilnaa naheen. Harek kahthay hain ek do ko- “sabhee aisey hain, tum aisey kyon apney ko maarthaa hai? tum bhee mil jaavo”. Kamzhor banaaneyvaaley saathi bahuth milthay hain. Lekin Baapdada ko chaahiye himmath, umang badhaanevaaley saathi. Toh samjhaa kyaa karnaa hai? Sevaa karo, lekin jamaa kaa khaathaa badhaathay huye karo. Khoob sebvaa karo. Pahley swayam ki seva, phir sarv kee sevaa.

= If you want to look, look at Father Brahma. In this, keep goal that you will not see others. Like the slogan of Father Brahma was “Otay se Arjun” – means one who becomes instrument will become number one Arjun. Father Brahma became number one Arjun. If you look at others, you will not become number one. ... [number one, Prajapita]-
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2490
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 209) Compilation of Godly Acts:-

Godly Acts - is a huge topic-hence not simple to discuss, so it is scattered here and there at various places. So-

Continuation from -
Post No. 149 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=13099#p13099

Post No. 65 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=9355&hilit=harsh#p9355

Post No. 169 and 170 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=14352&hilit=169+#p14352

Post No. 124- viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=12467&hilit=kaarobaar#p12467

Post No. 179 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=14928&hilit=adopts#p14928

as well as Post No. 22 and 21, and 23. - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&hilit=puppet&start=20

Now to some more:-

Everything is drama, father does not control:-

1) SM 18-12-72(3):- Yah sab drama banaa huvaa hai. Zara bhi fark pad nahin sakta. Bana banaya drama hai. Jo kuch hota hai sakshi hokar dekhte hain. Vinash hona hai sthaapan honi hai. Sakshi ho dekhna hai. Samjho ki kal earthquake hoti hai. Aise nahin ki Main batavunga ki kal yah hona hai. Vahi real baat huyi to sab bhaag jaaye. Baba se poochaa thaa aap pahle kyon nahin bataa dete. Baba ne kahaa ki yah thode hi bataayaa jaa sakta hai. Achaanak hoga. Tum sakshi hokar dekho. Bataavoon to fir sab apna prabandh kar le. Marey hi nahin. Sakshi hokar dekhte chalo. Mool baat hai mujhe yaad karo.

= This is already the preordained drama. There cannot be change of even a little. ...You should see this in sakshi stage. .....Assume that tomorrow earth quake is going to happen. It is not that I will tell you in advance what will happen tomorrow. Then it becomes real (not drama) and all will run away! Some have asked Baba - why do you not inform us in advance. Baba had replied- this cannot be said in advance. It will happen ACHAANAK (suddenly). You see in sakshi (detached) stage. If I inform, then all will make arrangements in advance and no one will die. See in sakshi stage and move. Main thing is remember ME.

2) SM 12-11-82(1, 2):- Sab drama ke bandhan may baandhe huye hain. Baap khud kahte hain main bhi drama ke bandhan may baandhaa huvaa hun. KOYI BAATH KA RESPOND DRAMA MAY HOGAA TOH BATAAVOONGAA. Merey may bhi part noondhaa huvaa hai. JAISE EMERGE HOTA JAATAA HAI TUMKO SAMJHAATAA RAHTAA HUN. SAB KUCH DRAMA KE NOONDH ANUSAAR HI CHALTAA HAI. ISMEY FARK PAD NAHIN SAKTAA. DRAMA MAY NAHIN HOGAA TOH RESPOND KARENGE NAHIN. Aise nahin ki abhi bataa doongaa ki baaki itney varsh hain. Baba se poochtey hain baba kab tak is sharir may musaafiri karenge? Bataayenge nahin. Drama may hai nahin to kyaa kar saktey? Drama may hogaa toh bataayenge. Main aayaa hee hun tum bachchon ko padhaaney. Main tumhaaraa Baap bhi hun. TUM GAATE HO TUM MAATPITAA, VAH PART BAJAA RAHAA HUN. Meraa farj hai tumko shikshaa denaa. -84, 84- [Maatpita, God’s acts]

3) SM 1-3-89(2):- Bhagavaanuvaach yah drama bana huva hai. Unko main bhi change nahin kar sakta hun. Bhagavaan ke oopar to koyi bhi hai nahin. Manushy to kah dete hain Bhagavaan kyaa nahin kar sakta. PARANTU BHAGAVAAN KHUD KAHTA HAI MAIN KUCH NAHIN KAR SAKTA HUN. Yah bana banaya khel hai. Vighn padte hain. Kuch bhi nahin kar sakte. Drama may noondh hai. Main kyaa kar sakta hun? Bahut bachchiyaan pukaarti hai humko nangan hone se bachavo. AB BAAP KYAAA KARENGE. BAAP SIRF KAH DENGE KI DRAMA KI BHAAVI. Yah to bana banaya drama hai. Aise math samjo ki Bhagavaan ki bhaavi. Bhagavaan ke haath may hota to samjho koyi anany sharir chod dete hain, unko bhi bacha dete. AISE BAHUTON MAY SAMSHAY AATE HAIN- BHAGAVAAN PADHAATE HAIN. AGAR BHAGAVAAN KE BACHCHE HAIN TO KYAA BHAGAVAAN BHI APNE BACHCHON KO BACHA NAHIN SAKTE? BAHUT ULHANA DETE HAIN. Kahte hain aise saadhu log to kiske praanon ko bacha dete hain, praan phir se aa jaate hain. Chita se bhi uth jate hain. Phir kahenge Ishwar ne lowtaaa diyaa. Kaal le gaya. Us par Prabhu ne raham kiya. Baap samjhaate hain jo kuch drama may noondh hai vah hota hai. Baap bhi kuch nahin kar sakta. Isko kaha jata hai drama ki bhaavi. …-83- [God’s act, WOT, baandheli]

= baba says this is preordained drama. I cannot change this. (People think) There is no one above God. People say- God can do anything. But, GOD HIMSELF SAYS- I CANNOT DO ANYTHING. This is preordained game. There will be obstacles. Nothing can be done. It is fixed in drama. WHAT CAN I DO? many female children cry- Baba help us from getting naked (the atrocities). NOW WHAT THE FATHER CAN DO? FATHER JUST SAYS- IT IS DRAMA. ..... If it is hands of God, he would had saved some anany(very close) child from dying. MANY GET SUCH DOUBTS- GOD TEACHES. IF THESE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN, IS IT THAT EVEN GOD CANNOT SAVE HIS CHILDREN? MANY COMPLAIN.

They even say- even some Sadhus save some people. The dead ones become alive. Some even get up from the pyre. Then they say- Ishwar/God returned him. God bestowed mercy. Father explains- What is there in drama, it happens. Father does not do anything. This is called as drama.

4)Why father does not allow everyone to meet?

SM 15-10-71(2):-President Governor aadi ko nasha to hai na. Bade2 aadmi aate hain unsay milnay. Bigar position jaan_ne kab koyi se mil na sake. Baba bhi kab miltay nahin hain. Baba ke position ko to sirf tum bachche hi jaante ho. So bhi numberwaar purushaarth anusaar jaan sakte hain. Bhal BrahmaKumari kahte hain parantu buddhi may yah nahin rahta hum Shivbaba ke santaan hain. Unsay hum swarg ka varsa le rahe hain.[ A satisfactory Reply to why baba can meet some VIPs and not all].

= President, Governor etc have intoxication is it not? VIPs come to meet them. Without understanding the position nobody meets another. Even Baba does not meet with anyone. Only you children know position of the father. .....

But- Baba has also said- till karmaateet stage is attained one has to move with yuktis (will have to compromise or adjust). That is why Baba has also said- nowadays- baba has to meet even with outside people (for service). Buit, in the end, it will be MARSHAL LAW. No one can enter into madhuban, let him be any big VIP, but if he is not following purity, will not be able to enter.

5)Father gives different dozes to children and explain in various ways:-

SM 23-12-70(1):- Baba kisam2 ka DOZE dete hain nasha chadhaane. = Baba gives dozes of different types to intoxicate children.

6) Post No. 203 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=15597&hilit=various#p15597

Baba knows that there are varieties of children listening to murlis- having different backgrounds, so explains in various ways. Some points will open intellects of someone, some do not need such points. [Ignorant people may feel/doubt and question/argue "Why baba had spoken in that way"

7) SM 17-2-89(1):- Main toh bachchon ko padhaataa hun. PARANTU TUMHAAREY MAY BHI KOYI ITNAA NAHIN SAMAJHTE HAIN. ISLIYE GAAYAN HAI KOTON MAY KOYI. KOYI TOH 5% BHI NAHIN JAANTE MAIN JO HUN, JAISAA HUN. Baap ko poori reeti yaad karnaa hai. Maamekum kyon nahin yaad karte ho? Kahte hain Baba- yaad bhool jaati hai. Arey- tum Baba ko yaad nahin kar saktey ho? YOON TOH BAAP SAMJHAATE HAIN MEHNATH KAA KAAM HAI. PHIR BHI PURUSHAARTH KARAANE KE LIYE PUMP KARTE RAHTE HAIN. -64, 64- [Gita, warning, koton may koyi, God’s acts]

= .......Arey cannot you remember the father? Father explains it is dificult. But, to put effort, he PUMPS children.

8) Father can speak straightly, but children cannot:-

SM 14-1-77(2):- Tum kaanton ke jungle may rahnevaale ho. Jungle may kaante aur jaanvaar hee rahte hain. YAH BAAP KOYI KO BHI KAH SAKTE HAIN. BACHCHE NAHIN KAH SAKTE. 16-

= You are living in forest of thorns. In forest, thorns and animals only live. FATHER CAN TELL THIS TO ANYONE. CHILDREN CANNOT.

9) SM 17-2-89(2):- JAISE TUM BACHCHON KO BOLTAA HUN, VAISE KOYI BADE TE BADAA JUDGE AAYEGAA, UNKO BHI BAAP BOLENGE NA “BACHCHE”. Kyonki MAIN toh oonche te oonchaa Bhagavaan hun. Oonch te oonchi padhaayi main hee padhaataa hun. -64- [rath, God’s acts]

= Like father teaches you children, in the same way- suppose say- some senior JUDGE comes, even to him/them, Baba will say- CHILD, because I am the highest of high God. I only teach the highest education.

10) Direct and indirect relations:-

SM 16-10-82(2):- Baap kahte hain bachche toh bahut hain. Bachche hee patr aadi likhte hain aur main bhi bachchon kea age hee pratyaksh hotaa hun. SAARI KAAROBAAR MERI BACHCHON SE HAI. JO MERE BACHCHE BANTE HAIN UNKAA HEE MAIN BAAP HUN. Phir vah saga hai vaa lagaa hai so phir main samajh saktaa hun. -53 [God’s Acts, WOT]

= ....All of my work is with my children. I am father of only those who become my children. .....
[But, we know that God is father of all. But, here Baba means that in practical, and strong/direct relation would be with only those who tune themselves to HIM].

11) Is God antaryaami or not?

Sometimes baba says- I am NOT antaryaami - I DO NOT sit and see what you all do, hence will NOT KNOW or observe each one. (baba clarifies this - because it is not God's job to sit and see everything and everyone).
But, Baba sometimes also says/implies - I am antaryami- I (CAN) know everything, nothing can be hidden from me. So- do not try to cheat God.

SM 24-10-82(2):- Niraakaar Baap padhaate hain. VAH TUMHAAREY ANDAR KI SAB BAATHEIN JAANTE HAIN. Ek centre se samaachaar aayaa thaaa. EK BACHCHI NE BHOOL KI TOH DHARMARAJ NE DANDAA LAGAAYAA. Is Baba ko toh maaloom hi nahin thaa. Aise bahut hain jo vikaar may jaate hain phir sach nahin bataate. Apney ko bachaane ke liye bhool chipaate hain. Parantu Shivbaba se toh chip nahin sakti. Tumko padhaanevaalaa Shivbaba hai. Unko bhi bhool jaate ho. Yah toh kambhakthi kahenge. Yahaan kiskaa bhi jhoot va sach chip nahin saktaa. Yah Baba kahte hain main antaryaami nahin hun. Shivbaba antaryaami hai. Baap khud kahte hain main niraakaar sab jaantaa hun. Yah to sakar may hai. Main punarjanm rahit… Yah to janm maran may aanevaalaa. Tab toh inko kahte hain tum apney janmon ko nahin jaante ho. Hum tumko sunaate hain. Jo bhi sooryavamshi gharaaney ki aatmaayein hain un sabko sunaataa hun. Bahut bachche chipaate hain baba ke aage aate hi nahin hain. Baba ne kahaa hai insey math chipaavo. Inko sab kuch sunaavo toh maaf ho jaayegaa. Phir bhi meraa bachchaa hai. Main toh sab kuch jaantaa hun. Inko kaise pataa padey. Pataa padey, isliye sab inko sunaavo. AAGE KAA JAN JANMAANTAR KAA HISAB TOH MERE PAAS JAMAA HAI. Baaki is janm ka jo hai vah inko sunaavo toh main bhi sunoongaa. Baaki ghar may baithe samjhenge Shivbaba to sab kuch jaantaa hai. Nahin. Vah toh bhaktimarg may karte aaye ho. AB TOH MAIN SAMMUKH AAYAA HUN. TOH BATAANAA PADEY. TAB PHIR SAAVDHAANI BHI MILEGI. Baap toh samjhaayenge kaalaa muh nahin karnaa. Nahin toh bahut sajaa khaayenge. Misaal bhi dekhte sunte rahte ho. Surgeon se paap kab bhi chipaavo math. Maaf vah karenge, yah nahin. Is samay paap karne se vah sowgunaa ho jaayegaa. Aur faaltoo jhoot bhi math bolo. Baba sab bachchon ko warning dete hain. Kitni badi behad ki paathshaalaa hai. -59, 59- [warning, God’s acts, dharmaraj, rath]

12) Regarding Dharmaraj - Post No. 138 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=12552&hilit=Dharmaraj#p12552

13) Regarding Inspiration - Post No. 118 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=15188&hilit=Dharmaraj#p15188

Many times- Baba says- there is no use in vision, trance, inspiration, etc. But, baba has used them extensively in his role. The point is- when there is no much knowledge, they will play an important tool. And- they are only like guides/mirrors which help to realize goals. Once we understood the goal, then there is no use in getting stuck to them.

14) Is Baba Bestower of happiness or not?

Sometimes baba says- I give you peace and happiness, property, etc. Sometimes baba says- I do not give. When you remember me, you automatically get it!

15) Similarly, Sometimes Baba says- I have come since you have called me. But, sometimes baba says- I do not come when you call me, I come at my own time as per drama.

Actually, both are right. Since those who have completed bhakti only will be able to realize God.

16) I have come to purify you, to take back you to home, Curing your karmabhog is not my job:-


17) Baba also says- children cry- "Baba save us from Maya. But, I tell maya- go to children and take their test."

“तुम बच्चों को बहुत सम्भाल रखनी है। दूसरी मत पर चला यह मरा। बाबा को लिखते हैं – बाबा, माया को कहो हम पर दया करे, इतना हैरान न करे। बाबा कहते – नहीं, अभी तो माया को हम आर्डर करते हैं कि खूब तूफान मचाओ। दुःख के, विकर्मों के एकदम पहाड़ गिराओ। अच्छी तरह नाक से पकड़कर फथकाओ, देखो स्वर्ग के लायक हैं? ऐसे थोड़े ही कहेंगे कृपा करो, आशीर्वाद करो। स्कूल में टीचर किस पर भी कृपा करते हैं क्या? उन्हें तो पढ़ना है। यह नालेज है, अन्धश्रद्धा की कोई बात नहीं। यह कोई कामन सतसंग नहीं है। यह है ईश्वरीय सतसंग।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २२.०४.०८, पृ.४) – God’s Acts

“You children should be very careful. As soon as someone follows others’ direction he dies (from the path of knowledge). They write to Baba – Baba, ask Maya to have mercy on us; ask her not to trouble us so much. Baba says – No, now I order Maya to create a lot of storms. (I tell her) Cause the mountains of sorrows and sins to fall on them. Catch them nicely through their nose and trouble them; check whether they are worthy of heaven. Will you say that have mercy (on us), give blessings ? Does teacher show sympathy for anyone in the school? They have to study. This is knowledge; there is no question of blindfaith. This is not a common satsang (spiritual gathering). This is a Godly satsang.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.04.08, pg 4 published by BKs in Hindi)

18) Baba also may take tests - Post No. 89 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=11893&hilit=tests#p11893

19) Post No. 185 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=15023&hilit=private#p15023

20) Post No. 117 to 119 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&start=160
Last edited by mbbhat on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


Return to BK churning, realisations, and musings