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A request for admins

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Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:28 pm

Posts: 723
Link with BKs: BK

Dear Admins, I believe it would be for the best to the atmosphere of this Forum if a new section was created as a breakaway group, to relocate user Shakti's thread that advertises a belief that Mama is the true and only medium of God.

Shakti is making some daily posts there, which can't be classified neither as BK philosophy, nor as discussion, and for this reason, I believe that in the context of the general forum, it becomes a sensationalist, non-BK, non-philosophical advertising of a personal belief, undermining the experience of the Forum.

The fact that she takes Murli points out of their context and gives new meanings for them - that she claims to prove that Mama is the only medium of God, can also be confusing to hundreds of people who visit this Forum daily.

I would like to suggest if a section could be created specifically for her breakaway group, so that she would have total freedom to post her thoughts there and anyone interested could read/participate in their own section.

We raised some points about it here: http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/who-is-the-personified-medium-of-father-shiv-t2397-80.html

Thank you.

Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:50 pm
bksimonb User avatar
Site Admin

Posts: 392
Location: London, UK
Link with BKs: BK
I've seen the thread and I think you articulated quite clearly that this view is unconventional. In the case of the PBKs they are a known break-away organisation. In this case, is there actually a whole group involved or this is Shakti's own individual view?

Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:03 pm

Posts: 723
Link with BKs: BK

I'm not sure, but it seems that Shakti is the only person with the belief that Mama is the medium of God. It seems that she came here to preach and try to get new followers.

I think the right thing to do would be to choose a name for the group and whoever login in the first page will see that name and those interested can read the content.

Maybe Shakti could choose a name for the group? Some suggestions:

MK (Mama Kumaris)
JK (Jagadamba Kumaris)
SSK (Shiv-Shakti Kumaris)
SS Army

In case she really doesn't feel comfortable with a name, maybe a section could be opened for individual persons with a breakaway belief? Maybe something like "breakaway individual beliefs" or "breakaway independent beliefs"?

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:31 am
bksimonb User avatar
Site Admin

Posts: 392
Location: London, UK
Link with BKs: BK
I've had a look at the thread linked to. I can't see any substantial difference from gyan other than the claim that Mama was the no.1 human and not Brahma.

I remember hearing in the murli statements like, "First Laxmi, then Narayan" but I always took that to be Brahma Baba showing respect. I see them both as being equal no.1, the double-bead.

It is also possible to say that Mama was the personification of Shiva in the sense that that is what the stage of being "Shiv-Shakti" or "combined form" represents. It is something we can all practice but Mama did so more consistently. In that sense we become the medium of God through action, not words. Again, this is a stage we are all encouraged to have since it how most souls will take their inheritance for the next cycle through the medium of the BKs.

The other aspect that need clarifying is that Mama is not an incarnation of God. Otherwise we receive our inheritance 2nd-hand. Our role is to emulate Mama not consider her to be a an incarnation. Same goes for Brahma. Not sure if that was what Shakti was saying.

From what I can tell Shakti is mostly looking at things from a slightly different, and interesting, new angle.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:24 am

Posts: 723
Link with BKs: BK

bksimonb wrote:
I've had a look at the thread linked to. I can't see any substantial difference from gyan other than the claim that Mama was the no.1 human and not Brahma.


Well, she said very clearly that:

- all BKs are wrong.

- God can be remembered only in the body of Mama.

- Mama's soul and Shiva's soul are the same.

- Mama secretly controlled Brahma Baba's mind an spoke all the murlis through his mouth.

- ONLY those who remember God in the body of Mama are remembering God in the right way.

- The 108 souls are composed ONLY of those who remember God in the body of Mama.

Whether or not she puts Mama as a number 1 soul is a very minor detail compared to her main beliefs.

I understand that Mama is an example for us and the stage of being combined with God is our aim, but I think that's not exactly the message Shakti is trying to spread here.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:52 am
bksimonb User avatar
Site Admin

Posts: 392
Location: London, UK
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Wow! That's far out!

OK. I'll wait for more comments and if necessary start a poll. The question is whether it is right to quarantine one member because their ideas are left-field if they are not a member of any splinter organisation, or if it is better to just challenge the ideas as part of the normal forum process in the threads in which they are expressed.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:57 am

Posts: 723
Link with BKs: BK

bksimonb wrote:
The question is whether it is right to quarantine one member because their ideas are left-field if they are not a member of any splinter organisation, or if it is better to just challenge the ideas as part of the normal forum process in the threads in which they are expressed.


Actually, the idea is not quarentine the member, only the thread that is solely made for advertising of the belief.

Discussion is ok, I and other users tried to debate, but she kept ignoring our questions and just keeps repeating her doctrine daily.

For reasons of pure mathematics, any thread that recieves daily posts will recieve hundreds of views per week. So, should anyone be able to make any kind of thread with daily posts and drag the flow of visitors to it?

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:19 am
bksimonb User avatar
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Posts: 392
Location: London, UK
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Hmm. This is why its a good idea to invite more comments before putting up a poll. Otherwise I would have asked the wrong question :!:

How about a sub-forum under the "Break-away groups" called "Misc" where members with exceptional views can list where they feel their views differ from mainstream understanding and other members can also reply to add clarity?

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:28 am

Posts: 129
Location: Bangalore
Link with BKs: In Contact
How about a sub-forum under the "Break-away groups" called "Misc" where members with exceptional views can list where they feel their views differ from mainstream understanding and other members can also reply to add clarity?

Well, I had, long before, asked the moderators to be ready for this. Now the time has come I think.
Good step EasyMeditation. Way to go..
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Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:46 am

Posts: 723
Link with BKs: BK

bksimonb wrote:
How about a sub-forum under the "Break-away groups" called "Misc" where members with exceptional views can list where they feel their views differ from mainstream understanding and other members can also reply to add clarity?


I agree with that, as long as any thread with a nature of advertising / preaching / indoctrination of a non-BK belief is moved there. Specially beliefs that are too radical and change all the core BK philosophy and consider all BKs to be wrong, like Shakti's. And specially when the user is not interested in debates or discussions, and just wants to preach, which is not a surprise for beliefs that are not founded in logic.

For example, I think it would be wonderful if christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists, atheists, evolutionists, creationists, deists, solipsists etc. all came to this forum bringing their best arguments so that we could have wonderful debates. But I think it would be very inappropriate if one of them opened a thread just to advertise their belief, with enough ammunition for years of daily small posts, and evading any discussions about it.

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