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क्या आत्मा एक शक्ति है ? Whether soul is an energy?



Posts: 142
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ओम शान्ति !

प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

आप सभी GODLY STUDENTS, आत्म-ज्ञानी, आत्म-अभिमानी बनने के पुरुषार्थी तथा आत्म-अनुभूति के अनुभवी बहनों और भाइयों से इस बिषय पर कुछ रूह रिहान करने के लिए स्वागत है I कुछ सहज प्रश्न का उत्तर “हाँ” या “ना” में देने की अनुरोध है I

1. आत्मा को दिव्यदृष्टि से देखा जा सकता है I आत्मा का कोई रूप (shape) है I ( हाँ / ना)
1a. क्या शक्ति को देखा जा सकता है या शक्ति का कोई रूप (shape) हो सकता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

2. आत्मा वहुत ही छोटी चीज होने के कारण स्थूल नेत्र से देखा नहीं जा सकता I ( हाँ / ना )
2a. सभी आत्माएं ब्रह्मलोक में छोटी जगह पर रहते है I ( हाँ / ना )
2b. अर्थात चाहे कितना भी छोटी क्यों न हो, आत्मा का कुछ आकर (Size) है I ( हाँ / ना )
2c. क्या ‘शक्ति’ के लिए छोटी या बड़ी (size) कहना उचित लगता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

3. आत्मा ऐसी वस्तु है, जिसे तलवार काट नहीं सकता, अग्नि जला नहीं सकती,
जल भिगो नहीं सकती या बायु उड़ा नहीं सकती I ( हाँ / ना )
3a.क्या किसी शक्ति के लिए भगवत गीता की श्लोक 2.24 अच्छेद्योऽयमदाह्योऽयमक्लेद्योऽशोष्यएव च ।
अयर्थात नहीं लगता ? ( हाँ / ना )

4. आत्मा अजर, अमर और अविनाशी है I ( हाँ / ना )
4a. शक्ति अविनाशी है और आत्मा भी I
केवल इसी आधार पर आत्मा को एक शक्ति मानना क्या यथार्त है ? ( हाँ / ना )
4b. क्या शक्ति के लिए अजर या अमर कहना उचित लगता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

5. आत्मा में 5000 साल की अविनाशी पार्ट नूँधा हुआ है I
क्या शक्ति / ENERGY में 5000 साल की अविनाशी पार्ट record हो सकता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

6.आत्मा पावन से पतित बनती है Iक्या कोई शक्ति के लिए पतित या पावन कहना यर्थात लगता है? ( हाँ / ना )
6a. शक्ति में लेप छेप लग सकती ? ( हाँ / ना )
6b. आत्मा को शक्ति मानने से क्या आत्मा को सदा पावन या लेप छेप से न्यारी सिद्ध नहीं करेगा? ( हाँ / ना )

7. आत्मा की निजी गुण शान्ति है, जैसे जल का गुण शीतलता, चुम्बक का गुण लोहा को अपनी तरफ
आकर्षित करना, फूल का गुण सुगंध फैलाना ------I ( हाँ / ना )
7a. आत्मा का और 6 गुण हैं- सुख, प्रेम, ज्ञान,शक्ति, पबित्रता और आनन्द I ( हाँ / ना )
7b.जब की “शक्ति” आत्मा की एक गुण हैं, फिर आत्मा को एक शक्ति कहना उचित लगता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

8. हम यह नहीं कहेंगे की " जल एक प्रकार की शीतलता हैं " या "चुम्बक एक प्रकार की आकर्षण शक्ति हैं " या "फूल एक प्रकार की सुगंध हैं " ( हाँ / ना )
8a.इसी प्रकार क्या हम कह सकते हैं - आत्मा एक प्रकार की शान्ति है, आत्मा एक प्रकार की प्रेम है, आत्मा एक प्रकार की आनन्द है,
आत्मा एक प्रकार की ज्ञान हैं, आत्मा एक प्रकार की शक्ति हैं ? ( हाँ / ना )
8b.मैं आत्मा हूँI क्या हम कह सकते की मैं शान्ति हूँ, मैं प्रेम हूँ, मैं शक्ति हूँ, I am peace; I am love; I am energy? ( हाँ / ना )

9. आत्मा एक बैटरी की तरह चार्ज और डिसचार्ज होती है I ( हाँ / ना )
(यानि आत्मा गुण और शक्तियों से भरपूर होती है जैसे पूरी तरह से चार्जड बैटरी और धीरे धीरे अपनी शक्तियां खो देती हैI
परमात्मा से कनेक्शन जोड़ने से फिरसे शक्तियों से भरपूर हो जाती है I)
9a.अगर आत्मा स्वयं एक शक्ति है, तो शक्ति क्षय होने की या प्राप्त करने की बात न होती I ( हाँ / ना )

10. आत्मा का अस्तित्व भी स्वतंत्र है I Existence of soul is independent. ( हाँ / ना)
10a. शक्ति किसी भी चीज की कार्य करने की क्षमता है I
There are different ways that an object or a system can possess energy.
शक्ति का अस्तित्व स्वतंत्र नहीं है I शक्ति का स्रोत कोई ना कोई वस्तु है I ( हाँ / ना )

11. किसी भी वस्तु में उसका गुण समाया हुआ रहता है, अर्थात ब्याप्त रूप में रहता है, जैसे चुम्बकीय शक्ति चुम्बक में, kinetic energy गतिमान बस्तु में,
Heat एनर्जी (ताप शक्ति) ताप का उत्पादन स्रोत में और आस पास की बायुमण्डल में ब्याप्त रूप में होता है,
तो आत्मा को एक शक्ति मानने से क्या उसका उपस्तिति शरीर के अंदर ब्याप्त रूप में सिद्ध नहीं करेगा ? ( हाँ / ना )
11a. परमात्मा को परम शक्ति मानने से क्या परमात्मा सर्वब्यापी है - यह सिद्ध नहीं करेगा ? ( हाँ / ना )

12. कोई युक्ति बताते - मैं शक्तिस्वरूप आत्मा हूँ, तो शक्ति ही तो हुआ I
पर मैं आत्मा एक शक्ति हूँ और मैं शक्ति स्वरुप आत्मा हूँ - क्या दोनों का अर्थ एक है ? ( हाँ / ना )
12a.इसी तरह परमात्मा सर्वशक्तिमान हैं और परमात्मा परम शक्ति हैं - क्या दोनों का अर्थ एक है ? ( हाँ / ना )

13. परमात्मा पिता की परिचय "वह एक super energy परम शक्ति है" यह कहना या सुनना अच्छा लगता है? ( हाँ / ना )
13a. हमारे अति प्यारे बाबा, मीठे मीठे बाबा है न ! क्या किसी शक्ति के लिए यह मीठे या प्यारे शब्द जचता है ? ( हाँ / ना )
13b. जरूर सबसे ज्यादा प्यारी “वस्तु” होनी चाहिए I ( हाँ / ना )

आपका भाई
ब. कु. अतुल्य


Posts: 2495
Link with BKs: BK
Part of the discussion is here- viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2939

1) Adding few more points:- Baba says- all the three -

Drama is sarvashaktimaan (almighty).
God is sarvashaktimaan (almighty).
Maya is also sarvashaktimaan. Now, only God has form. Other two do not have.

2) Baba again says- Birth if Maya is through weakness. = Maya ki paidaais kamzhori se hoti hai . Now if we think just in literal sense, it becomes illogical as - "How can anything that gets birth through weakness can be called as Almighty? "

3) If we say soul as just energy, it is wrong. If we say soul as just a substance (vastu), even then it does not become complete. Baba says- soul battery gets recharged and discharged. A battery is both a substance as well as a power/energy.

4) Foundation for any virtue, quality or anything is power/energy. For example, a firewood is both a vastu and energy. Once it burns, then it is just vastu, not energy. An entity (substance = vastu) can have many qualities, but energy is the most essential, the first one or the fundamental one. . If there is no energy, it is as good as waste.

That is why Baba says- the energy in the soul battery never becomes zero. If soul is just a vastu/substance, Baba need not give example for battery. In a battery, it is due to the energy/power in it, we get different types of benefits, and applications.
Similarly, it is the spiritual energy in the soul that is responsible for all of its beauty/quality and virtues.

Energy is like money. From money, we can get/buy many things.

5) So- when we say- soul is shaanta-swaroop, and shakti-swaroop, we may see both shaanti and shakti as one and the same. But Baba also says- shanti ki shakti = Power of silence. Baba also says- power of tolerance.

So- sometimes baba says- tolerance, peace, etc are virtues, but sometimes power.

So- it may not be enough or right to say- shakti is also just a virtue like peace.

Some thoughts are here- the final aim is to transform everything into power. Then only the virtues, etc will become real self esteem. Post No. 238 - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1172&p=5748&hilit=virtue#p5748

6) Even in science- there is a direct/unique relation between matter/vastu and energy/shakti. So- I do not feel any wrong in saying soul as spiritual energy, (since we also say- it has eternal form as point and is divine light and might).

Heard from other:- Mostly- When B baba had got vision/direction initially in yagya- "Tumhen ek aisee duniyaa banaani hai = You have to create such a world" - [Shivbaba had given vision of destruction and then that of heaven to B Baba]. After the vision of heaven, Shivbaba gave direction to B Baba that- "you have to create such a world. "

When asked "who gave you vision", B Baba replied - "Vah ek light aur might thi" = "That was a light and might" . So- we can see here- the word MIGHT is nothing but again SHAKTI/POWER.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


Posts: 142
Link with BKs: BK
ओम शान्ति !

प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

मूल प्रश्न :- आत्मा क्या चीज है ?
Basic question is “What is soul?”

इसके अंतर्गत हम दूसरा प्रश्न पर चर्चा कर रहे हैं " क्या आत्मा एक शक्ति है ?
Here in this subject we are discussing the second question “Whether soul is an Energy?”

अगर उत्तर "हाँ" है, तो ही अगला प्रश्न होगा की "आत्मा किस प्रकार की शक्ति ?" और उत्तर दिया जा सकता है "आत्मा एक चैतन्य शक्ति है I" या "आत्मा एक आध्यात्मिक शक्ति है I”
If answer is “Yes” then next question may be “Which type of Energy?” and then it can be answered “Soul is a sentient energy” OR “Soul is a spiritual energy” etc.

अगर उत्तर "ना" है, अगला प्रश्न फिर मूल प्रश्न पर होगा फिर आत्मा क्या चीज है ?
If answer is “No” then the next question shall move towards the basic question “What is Soul?”

तो अनुरोध है की हम यहाँ केवल इसी प्रश्न पर चर्चा करें की "क्या आत्मा एक शक्ति है ?"
So it is requested to be within the question of this subject “Whether soul is energy?”

Thanks to my brother mbbhat for the answer
3) If we say soul as just energy, it is wrong.


Again my brother writes
it is the spiritual energy in the soul that is responsible for all of its beauty/quality and virtues


It means “Soul possesses the spiritual energy.” or “Soul is source of energy.”

But my brother again writes that
“I do not feel any wrong in saying soul as spiritual energy”


In my understanding;- the summary of my brothers writing :-

Soul is not energy but it is a spiritual energy.

I feel there is a contradiction. If soul is a spiritual energy then any way it is energy.

If soul is not energy then how can it be called as spiritual energy?

Thanks and Regards
BK Atulya


Posts: 2495
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7) Take example of food or anything what is to be realized/used effectively.
Is food substance or energy? It is obviously substance. But the aim is not to realize it as substance, rather energy.
Aim is to feel food as mainly energy, then taste, colour, softness, smell, etc.

Similarly, our aim is to feel/realize soul as not just substance, but mainly energy, then virtue, etc.
So- the final product/result expected of the food is again energy or efficient use/realization.

8) The term/attribute ENERGY has value- at all the times, aadi, madhy, and anth.
Similarly, I believe, even when a soul in in Paramdham, its main attributes are energy and/plus swadharm (peace)*.

It is difficult and incomplete to explain a food/battery excluding the word energy.

*9) Another interesting point - Even though peace is also used as other words like- shantswaroop, gyaan swaroop, etc, SHAANTI/PEACE is the SWADHARM of a soul.
Whether one is gyaani, has 16 kalas, all the virtues or not, does not matter so much. But to what extent one is PEACEFUL, will always matter.
Even while in paramdham, (or in sleep) soul is like experiencing peace. (at least in a subtle sense). The other attributes virtues, knowledge, etc - come to question only when it comes into body or in the awakened state.

So- we usually say- peace (and purity**) as not only virtues, but also swadharm of a soul.

10) Now- even though we say- swadharm of a soul as peace, we still say/know that soul does not remain always peaceful! It loses peace as it degrades. So, in one way- there is room to argue - "How can then peace be called as swadharm of a soul?" - :)

Baba corrects.explain this as- you/humans are just shaant-swaroop, I am shanti ka sagar/ocean of peace.

**11) -purity is also swadharm of a soul, since it totally different/.separate than the nature and eternal.


12) Most beloved Baba says- "Atma mann-buddhi sahith hai = Soul is combined with mind and intellect".
Now- is it better to say mind and intellects as energy/power or substance? Obviously as power/energy.
We say mind and intellects are like faculties of a soul. It would look inferior to say mind and intellects as just substance.

Because just substance is nature/matter.
Living cells means body.
Power means the highest.

The aim is to feel soul as (eternal) substance/individuality/self esteem and (spiritual) energy at the same time. Food vanishes, but soul does not. Without the feeling of substance, if we just try to feel it as energy, it would be foolishness. Similarly, if we just try to feel soul as substance without energy, it would be lacking its most important attribute.

I am still satisfied with myself only to the extent of 75%. The topic is very good. Hope our state of realization goes higher.
--------------

In my understanding;- the summary of my brothers writing :-

Soul is not energy but it is a spiritual energy.

I feel there is a contradiction. If soul is a spiritual energy then any way it is energy.

If soul is not energy then how can it be called as spiritual energy?

Sorry, it was implied there. Hence did not like to include the word spiritual (every time) in the phrase soul is energy.
In every place wherever I have written "soul as energy", take it as "soul is spiritual energy"

Conclusion was- it would be wrong to feel soul as just energy or just substance. It should be realized as substance as well as energy at the same time. Else soul is like dead. The one that is the real cause for life, would be felt as dead.

That is why Baba says- baath ko math pakado = bhaavnaa ko pakado = Do not get stuck into the words, take the intentions."
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


Posts: 142
Link with BKs: BK
Om Shanti my dear brother,
Thanks for your opinion in conclusion that
“it would be wrong to feel soul as just energy or just substance. It should be realized as substance as well as energy”


But it is requested to be specific on the question in the subject:-”Whether soul is an energy?”

Answer should be “Yes” OR “No” and then justification for the answer.

My brother, here we are discussing about the knowledge about soul. We are not discussing about the application of the knowledge. (Realisation part) I have no experience about the feelings of soul conscious stage. You may have felt the soul as energy as well as substance. But we are not discussing about the feelings of soul conscious stage. And you will agree that “Soul is not a feeling.” Here we are discussing the second part of the basic question “What is soul?”

My brother is very correct to say that the aim is to get energy out of food. But it is important to know about the food before eating. Here food is knowledge about “soul”.

प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

फिरसे इस बिषय की प्रश्न की और ध्यान दिलाता हूँ की " क्या आत्मा एक शक्ति है ?"

उत्तर आपकी समझ से "हाँ " या "ना" में ही होना चाहिए, उसके बाद आपके उत्तर पर आपके युक्ति प्रस्तुत करें तो हम एक दूसरे की भाव को सहज समझ सकते हैं I

आपका भाई
ब. कु. अतुल्य


Posts: 2495
Link with BKs: BK
acc01775 wrote:
But it is requested to be specific on the question in the subject:-”Whether soul is an energy?”

Answer should be “Yes” OR “No” and then justification for the answer.

Sorry for not addressing fully.

13) In this topic, the example of food and battery had been given. Food is taken by myself (which may not be fully appropriate), but Baba HIMSELF has given the example of battery.

14) To explain more, if we put the question ?whether sun is substance or energy?" - can we reply by the word- Yes or No? I feel we will have to say both. Just one option cannot be selected.

15) Soul is not only like a battery, but also like sun. It radiates, and works/active continuously(all the time). Even during sleep, even if there is no thoughts coming out of the soul, our physical body remains warm, just because of presence of soul in the body.
Baba has even said- the brightness of soul in Paramdham would be numberwise. So- the energy is counted even there.

Sun is both substance and energy. So, soul is similar to it. Baba gives the name gyaan-soory (sun of knowledge). to himself, as well as master gyaan-soory to us.

16) In lowkik, it is said- "Knowledge is Power". [Even though knowledge is used mainly in the application of it]. So- when even in lowkik it is said so, I do not feel there is any wrong if we say- Soul is Power/energy.

Sun (Source of knowledge) is higher than rays of sun (knowledge). Similarly, soul is even higher than the spiritual knowledge, since it is the soul that imbibes it and radiates it. [Of course, in Copper Age, we become dull, and then God has to come to give knowledge).

17) Baba says- half a kalpa is gyan (Golden and Silver Age). In fact, there is absolutely no gyaan (spiritual, religious/scripture, or science). Still Baba certifies deities as gyaa_swaroop (embodiment of knowledge).

18) A charged battery is definitely- not only a substance, but also power/energy. If we put the question- whether "Petrol is energy or substance"- again it is not possible to reply in "Yes or No".
Since Baba has said- the battery power of a soul never becomes completely zero, and soul is eternal, so I believe it is not possible to bifurcate the word power from a soul.

19) There is room to say- Battery is first a substance(till it is manufactured), and then energy. But, in case of sun, it is difficult, as it is eternal. Since soul is eternal, and its soul-power never becomes zero, the case remains same here.

20) The other name for a soul is "spirit" - which again points to power/energy.

21) So- it is very difficult to bifurcate these words (substance and energy) from a soul.
But, if a person has to reply in words "Yes or No" - then it is OK to reply- "First substance and then energy"- because we can say- there is a variation/degradation of energy in a soul, but not substance.


22) So- the context gets highest important while explaining even the knowledge. But- the topic/question is very much valid- because - if we say soul as just "energy", people fail to understand its form and concentrate on it. When we say- "soul is a point, has mind, role of 84 births is recorded on soul".
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


Posts: 142
Link with BKs: BK
Om Shanti, my dear brother mbbhat,

I am sorry to say that though you have added 22 points in this subject, still you have not answered to the question within the stipulated options “YES” OR “NO”.

Your answer:- "First substance and then energy".

Here we are not discussing about whether it is substance/object.

Though this subject was discussed earlier, I had started a separate topic “Whether soul is an Energy?” with an aim to discuss various basic elements of soul which contradicts if it is accepted as energy.

One basic element:- रूप

1. All will agree that आत्मा या परमात्मा नाम रूप से न्यारी चीज नहीं हैं।

So all agree that आत्मा का कोई रूप है I

But in understandings there is difference.

My understanding of this शिव भगवानुवाच:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I :-
“कोई रूप है” अर्थात:- आत्मा को देखा जा सकता है I
आत्मा की साक्षात्कार हमारे कई भाई बहनें किए हैं, मैं भी, अर्थात दिव्यदृष्टि से देखे हैं I

Here question arises “Whether energy can be seen?” क्या शक्ति को देखा जा सकता है?

I shall request you to answer within stipulated options “YES” OR “NO”.

क्या शक्ति का कोई रूप हो सकता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

Please do not give any other’s example; you are to answer with your own understanding.

Thanks and regards

Your brother
BK Atulya


Posts: 2495
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One basic element:- रूप

My understanding of this शिव भगवानुवाच:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I :-
“कोई रूप है” अर्थात:- आत्मा को देखा जा सकता है I

आत्मा की साक्षात्कार हमारे कई भाई बहनें किए हैं, मैं भी, अर्थात दिव्यदृष्टि से देखे हैं I
Here question arises “Whether energy can be seen?*” क्या शक्ति को देखा जा सकता है?

23) Baba says- shaantswaroop, premswaroop. Can we say- peace and happiness have roop/form?
BTW- light is a form of energy which can be seen, right? And- all the substances are not visible. There are solid, liquid and gas. If we just like to stick to the word vastu/substance, then we will get stuck to the physical things.
I shall request you to answer within stipulated options “YES” OR “NO”.

I have already replied in point No. 21. I have given the first preference to vastu/substance, and then energy, so I agree with you 75%.
But, I do not like to give reply as- "just substance as if it is not at all energy or very far from the energy".

क्या शक्ति का कोई रूप हो सकता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

24) Already said- Just power will not have form. But source of power will have form.
Is source of power is also a power? - you may reply with "Yes or No" Do you believe soul or at least God is a source of power- "Yes or No"?
Please do not give any other’s example; you are to answer with your own understanding.

25) I have given examples only after addressing the matter even in that view.
Baba says- I explain in various ways. So- better take all the examples- why not? It will be good only.

*27) Actually, it would be incomplete if we think of soul just to one organ (eye= visibility). Even infrared rays and UV rays are also light, but are not visible to human eyes, as their frequency range falls outside the visible range. So, we will have to say- "some lights are visible, some are not".
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


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Om Shanti my dear brother,

My answer to your Point No.23 – “NO” , शान्ति या आनन्द का कोई रूप नहीं होता I

My answer to your Point No. 24 – “NO” , Source of energy can not be energy. Source of energy is always some object. (I have used the word energy in place of your word power)

It may be noted that “Energy is ability of an object or a system to do work.”

In other words, there are different ways that an object or a system can possess energy.

Example 1:-A flying baseball in air possess kinetic energy, because it can work on an object if collides.
Example 2:- A book on table possesses potential energy, because if it falls down, gravity will accelerate the book, giving the book kinetic energy. As the earth and its gravity exist, it is said that potential energy of the book is converted to kinetic energy.
Example 3:- The hot cup of coffee is said to possess thermal / heat energy. The sun is the source of heat energy, which radiates heat to warm us up in planet earth.
Example 4:- Body muscle is capable to do work as it possesses chemical energy, because the glucose releases energy when chemically reacted with oxygen.
Example 5:- Charged particles store electrical energy inside an electric field.
Example 6:- The battery stores energy in a chemical way. But electricity is also involved, so it is said battery stores electro chemical energy.
Example 7:- Sun transmits electromagnetic radiation to earth also called light (electromagnetic energy). Light is made up of billions of tiny particle known as photons, which travels from one place to another place in waves know as light waves.
Example 8:- Sound Energy - Sound waves are compression waves associated with the potential and kinetic energy of air molecules.

So various types of energy are possessed by object like baseball, book, hot cup of coffee, body muscle, battery, air molecule and small particles like electron and photon.

My answer to the second question of Point No. 24 is “YES”. Soul is source of energy who transmits energy through its mind to the brain of the body and also to billions of cells of body to perform work. GOD, the supreme soul is also source of energy who transmits energy to all the universe including souls to elevate from impure stage to pure stage.

And now to continue my point no.1;- :- रूप

My understanding of this शिव भगवानुवाच:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I

आत्मा की कोई न कोई आकृति है I(जैसे गोलाकार, अण्डाकार, त्रिभुजाकार, etc.) जिसकी समझ देने केलिए प्यारे बाबा ने कहा की आत्मा अंगुष्ठाकार है, फिर कहा नहीं, आत्मा तारें मिसल हैं, फिर कहा नहीं, आत्मा बिन्दी रूप हैं, सार में यही है की आत्मा की रूप है, अर्थात कोई आकृति है I So soul has a shape.

Here question arises “Whether energy has a shape? क्या शक्ति का कोई आकृति हो सकता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

Thanks and regards
Your brother
BK Atulya


Posts: 2495
Link with BKs: BK
My answer to your Point No.23 – “NO” , शान्ति या आनन्द का कोई रूप नहीं होता I

28) Dear brother, the question was - If shanti is not roop, why does Shivbaba (or we all) say- Shaantswaroop, premswaroop? How can we use those words or how to explain them? So- by sticking to the words literally, will not be Ok all the times.
BTW- I have just attempted to give a reply to this- No- 225) - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1172&p=4960&hilit=225+#p4960
My answer to your Point No. 24 – “NO” , Source of energy can not be energy. Source of energy is always some object. (I have used the word energy in place of your word power*)

It may be noted that “Energy is ability of an object or a system to do work.”

29) I believe ABILITY is directly related to ENERGY* . It seems that you do not agree with this. So- here lies the difference.

* - Note that unit of either work or energy are one and the same. I have no objection to use the words power or energy in same way since power is nothing but rate of doing work = [Energy/Time] or [Work/Time].

In other words, there are different ways that an object or a system can possess energy.

30) True. This is why I had said- just by saying whether a soul can be seen is not enough, It is related to only one organ. Realizing soul fully is a deeper one and has many dimensions.
But, eye is the main organ in learning. That is why - even the intellect is called as buddhi roopi aankh(eye of intellect)
But, one cannot deny light is energy. So- if we can say soul is divine light and might, - baba even says- light house, might house, etc, etc- then again I feel there is no problem in saying soul as energy.
Here question arises “Whether energy has a shape? क्या शक्ति का कोई आकृति हो सकता है ? ( हाँ / ना )

31)I believe there is no harm in saying "source of energy is also energy**". So, (in my view) source of energy can have shape. Anyhow, the difference in opinion is due to as said in 29).

** - Baba says- be in state of trikaaladarshi before doing anything. So- when we think of aadi, madhy, anth- together- there is no harm in accepting source of energy also as energy.

Fine.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

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