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क्या आत्मा एक शक्ति है ? Whether soul is an energy?



Posts: 142
Link with BKs: BK
Om Shanti, dear Brother,

Mbbhat writes:-
If shanti is not roop, why does Shivbaba (or we all) say- Shaantswaroop, premswaroop? How can we use those words or how to explain them?


Very good question, and you have answered the question in a nice way in topic 225 that shaantswaroop means peaceful. “ मै शान्तस्वरुप आत्मा हूँ – I am a peaceful soul.” Correct, I agree.

But I do not understand your point of view with respect to this topic. A single word can have different meaning by its use in different places.

I have answered your Point No. 24 with “No”, Source of energy can not be energy. Source of energy is always some object.
You have not given your opinion whether you accept my answer to be correct or not.

However you have written in point no.
31) I believe there is no harm in saying "source of energy is also energy**"


Please give some example where the source of energy is also energy. You agree in the definition of energy as “Energy is ability of an object or a system to do work.” The definition implies that source of energy is object. Otherwise please give a different definition for energy.

Mbbhat writes
29) I believe ABILITY is directly related to ENERGY* . It seems that you do not agree with this. So- here lies the difference.

I do not understand your view point. So I do not understand your apprehension of difference in opinion.

Ability means capability, क्षमता, सामर्थ्य I किसी भी वस्तु या प्रणाली की कार्य करने की क्षमता को शक्ति कहते है I आत्मा में कार्य करने की क्षमता, उसकी शक्ति है I आत्मा को सही बिधि से कार्य करने के लिए ही तो अष्ट शक्तियों की जरुरत होती है I

I am writing my understanding of शिव भगवानुवाच:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I

If you differ with any point of my understanding please write. Or if you have a different understanding of the sentence “आत्मा का कोई रूप है” please write. A particular word may be used for different meaning at different places. In my understanding here “रूप” is used to say that soul has a shape, the basic requirement for visualising soul in Rajyog. Of course shape is not the only one requirement but it is the main requirement for visualisation. The more the knowledge about its “रूप”, the clearer shall be its visualisation.

Let me repeat my points on :- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I

Point No.1:- किसी चीज का रूप है, अर्थात उसको देखा जा सकता है I
Point No.2:- आत्मा की कोई न कोई आकृति है I (जैसे गोलाकार, अण्डाकार, त्रिभुजाकार, etc.) Soul has a shape.

And today Point No.3:- आत्मा वहुत ही छोटी चीज होने के कारण स्थूल नेत्र से देखा नहीं जा सकता I सभी आत्माएं ब्रह्मलोक में एक छोटी जगह पर रहते है I अर्थात चाहे कितना भी छोटी क्यों न हो, आत्मा का कुछ आकर (Size) है ISoul has a size.

अगर आत्मा की आकर (Size), नहीं होता तो छोटे से छोटा कहना गलत होगा, फिर बेअन्त ब्रह्माण्ड में एक छोटी जगह पर सभी आत्माएं रहते - यह कहना भी गलत होगा I So soul acquires space, how small it may be.

Here question arises :- Whether we can say small or big for energy? क्या ‘शक्ति’ के लिए छोटी या बड़ी (size) कहना उचित लगता है ?

Many thanks for participating in discussion.

Regards
BK Atulya


Posts: 2493
Link with BKs: BK
I have answered your Point No. 24 with “No”, Source of energy can not be energy. Source of energy is always some object.
You have not given your opinion whether you accept my answer to be correct or not.

32) I have given to the extent I found I am comfort or logically applicable.
I fully agree with you that- source of energy is an object. But, in my view- to say source of energy as an energy, is not a great mistake. Literally speaking, it may look correct, but will not have ill-effect on the result.
I am writing my understanding of शिव भगवानुवाच:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I

If you differ with any point of my understanding please write. Or if you have a different understanding of the sentence “आत्मा का कोई रूप है” please write. A particular word may be used for different meaning at different places. In my understanding here “रूप” is used to say that soul has a shape, the basic requirement for visualizing soul in Rajyog. Of course shape is not the only one requirement but it is the main requirement for visualization. The more the knowledge about its “रूप”, the clearer shall be its visualization.

33) Even though I had written in the Post - 225- regarding swaroop, but if one argues literally- "Is the meaning of roop/form a quality/virtue?" Can we reply in Yes or No? I cannot.
Here question arises :- Whether we can say small or big for energy? क्या ‘शक्ति’ के लिए छोटी या बड़ी (size) कहना उचित लगता है ?

Good and right point. I have to surrender here to you. But, there are lots of such things.

34) SM 17-6-72(2):- Baap aaye sabhi ko padhaate hain. VAH HAI NIRAAKAAR STAR, LING ROOP MAY RAKHAA HAI SAMJHAANE LIYE. Bindi likney se koyi samajh na sake. Tum samjhaa sakte ho atma ek star hai, Baap bhi star hai. -195-

Baba says- "Incorporeal Star". How can we explain the word "Incorporeal Star"? If you like to explain, I would like to hear.
Niraakaar means one that has no aakaar/dimension. Or you may try to explain in any manner.

35)SM 24-9-82(1):- Behad ka rachaitaa Baap ek hi hai. Vahi baith samjhaate hain ki main hi tumhaaraa paaralowkik parampita parmatma hun. Parlok athvaa parey te parey lok may rahneyvaaley ko param atma kahtey hain. Baaki atma to sab ek jaisi hain. Koyi choti badi nahin hain. Jaise gyaan soory gyaan chandrama gyaan sitaarey. Toh us soory chand ki size may toh fark hai. Lekin atmaavon ka size to ek jaisaa hee hai. Baba kahtaa hai main koyi size may badaa nahin hun. LEKIN PARAMDHAM MAY RAHNEYVAALAA HUN. ISLIYE MUJHE PARAM ATMA KAHTE HAIN. PARAM AUR ATMA MILKAR PARMAATMA HO JAATAA HAI. Parmatma may hi saaraa gyaan hai. Vah kahte hain JAISE MAIN ASHAREERI HUN VAISE TUM ATMA BHI KUCH SAMAY PARAMDHAM MAY ASHAREERI RAHTEY HO. Baaki stage par jaasti samay rahte ho. To jaise tum aatmaa sitaarey sadrushy ho, vaise main bhi hun. Agar main badaa hotaa toh is sharir may fit hi nahin hota. Jaise our sab aatmaayein aati hai part bajaaney, vaise main bhi aataa hun. BABA KA BHAKTIMARG SE PART SHURU HOTAA HAI. Satyug tretaa may to part hee nahin hai. Ab khud aakar humko pooraa varsaa dete hain. APNEY SE BHI AAGE DOWDAAKAR OOPAR LE JAATE HAIN. Humko brahmand aur srushti donon kaa maalik banaate hain. Yah toh harek Baap ka farj hota hai bachchon ko laayak banaanaa,…..Kitni seva karte hain. Koyi ke 7 bachche hote hain, koyi doctor, engineer, vakil bantaa hai toh baap phoolaa nahin samaataa. Log bhi unko saraahnaa karte hain ki baap ne sab bachchon ko padhaakar kaisaa laayak banaayaa hai. Parantu sab ek jaise toh nahin bantey. Koyi kyaa bantaa, koyi kyaa. Vaise Baba kahtaa hai main tumko kitnaa laayak banaataa hun. YAH BABA DEKHO KAISAA HAI. ISKAA STHOOL NAAM ROOP KOYI HAI NAHIN. Doosrey ke tann may pravesh kar padhaate hain. -31 [hoshiyaar, paramdham, atma, vah, Shivbaba]

= ......I reside in Paramdham (Supreme Abode). hence I am called/known as Param Atma (Supreme Soul). .....

It is very difficult to explain this*. Is God Supreme (just) due to his place of residence?
All the souls reside in Supreme Abode. Some souls stay there even for more time than God. Shivbaba descends in 1936. Some souls are yet to descend. If we argue literally, one can argue- What is wrong to call any soul as Supreme Soul then?

So- when there are many such ambiguities here, I feel such minor mistakes will not affect. But, it is very good to discuss. I am not against that.Welcome for more points. **

* - I can say only that- Shivbaba resides in Paramdham only. Even if he comes here to play the role, he will not eat, drink, sleep, etc like other human souls.
But, if a question is put- "Is Supreme Soul called as Supreme just because he resides in Supreme Abode?" Can we reply in "Yes or No?

** - In the topic No. 225 - in the other link- I have tried to explain/justify that roop can mean or related for virtue/quality (peace, happiness, etc). But, still I am not satisfied fully. If you have anything to add to make it better, kindly suggest.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


Posts: 2493
Link with BKs: BK
36) SM 19-6-77(2):- Baap aakar sabko padhaate hain. Vah hai niraakar. STAR, LING ROOP RAKHAA HAI SAMJHAANE KE LIYE. BINDI LIKHNEY SE PHIR KOYI SAMAJH NA SAKEY. TUM SAMJHA SAKTEY HO ATMA EK STAR HAI. Baap bhi star hai. Jaise atma, vaise paramaatmaa. -30 [bindi, atom bomb]

Baba says- if you write soul as just as point, people will not understand. You will have to write as star.

37) Soul is not exactly like star:-

SM 6-9-73(3):- Bachchon ka samjhaya gaya hai ki atma star hai jinko bindi bhi kahte hain. Stars may to aise koney hote hain. Bindi may nahin hoti. Stars isliye kahte kyonki bhent ki jati hai. Lucky sitaarey kaha jata. Hai bindi, usmey gyan ki chamak hai. Toh atma bindi hai usmey saaraa part hai. Baap kahte hain mujh bindi may bhi part hai jo phir bhaktimarg se bajata hun. ….. -100 [WOT, bindi]

= ...Children are explained that soul is a star which is also called as point. (But) in stars, there are corners, which are not present in point. ...

38) Is it right to give light to soul or not?

SM 14-10-71(3):- Ab tum chitr banate ho. Baba to hai hi Bindi. Baaki fir light badi kar di hai. Itna badaa jo roop dikhaayaa hai vah light hai. Baba to bindi hai na. Tumhaari bhi atma hai. Ab tumko light kaise doon?(since you are a point). Toh tumhare sir par de dee hai. Atma ko light kaise deve? Light dene se bada ban jata hai. Vah bade light ko hi poojte hain. Isliye Manushy Paramatma ko jyoti swaroop kah dete hain. Vasatav may light hai pavitrata ki nishani. Manushy samajhte hain jyoti swaroop hai. Bindi ko agar light bhi choti de to poojaa kaise hogi? Isliye bada kar dete hain. Baap kahte hain main param atma Supreme Soul hun jisko tum Paramatma kahte ho. Parantu choti bindi ki pooja kaise ho? Isliye bada kar diya hai. Koyi ling ki poojaa karte hain. Sahukar hai to heeraa gol banakar unki poojaa karte hain. Naam to ShivLing hee rakhenge. Hai to Star. Aur koyi cheez nahin hai. Yah badi guhy baatein hain samajhne ki. Atma kab choti badi nahin koti. Nahin. Fit kaise ho?

= .... Baba is point. By giving him light has made/shown him as big. .....


39) Now- the Shiv Bhagavaanuvaach says- I am point star.

SM 19-8-81(3):- Vyaapaari log bhi bindi ko Shiv kahte hain. Ek do ginti jab karte hain, 10 par aayenge to kahenge Shiv. Ek par bindi aayi na. To kahenge Shiv. Baap bhi kahte hain main bindi hun star. Bahut log aise double tilak bhi dete hain. Maataayein bhi aise double tilak deti hai. Mata aur Pita gyan sury, gyan chandrama ki nishani hai yah. Parantu unko arth ka kuch bhi pata nahin hain. Yah rasam rivaaz chalti aati hai. To Baba yog par samjhaa rahe they. -175-

= ... Father himself says - I am point, star.

40) SM 27-3-76(2):-Atma kyaa hai, Paramatma kyaa hai, yah koyi bhi manushy maatr nahin jaante. [b]Atma bhi ek star bindi hai. Kahte hain bhrukuti ke beech may sitaaraa chamaktaa hai. Choti see bindi hai na. Divy drushti se dekhaa jaa saktaa hai. Vaastav may star bhi nahin kahaa jaavegaa. Star toh bahut badaa hai. Sirf door honey kaaran chotaa dikhaayi padtaa hai. Yah sirf ek khyaal diyaa jaataa hai. Atma itni choti hai. Jaise oopar may star chotaa dikhaayi padtaa hai. Baap bhi atma misal ek bindi hee hai. -129
[Bindi, WOT] - -129

In 39, and 40- Baba is saying both soul and Supreme Soul are point star. Now- Is star a point? - Can we reply in "Yes or No?"


41) SM 10-3-82(1):- Hum atma hain bilkul chotaa star. Poojaa ke liye badaa roop banaayaa hai. BAAKI ITNI BADI AATMAA TO YAHAAN BHRUKUTI MAY BAITH NA SAKE. Kahte hain bhrukuti ke baach may chamaktaa hai ek ajab sitaaraa. Star muvafik. Phir bhi chote bade ling banaate hain. STAR KITNAA CHOTAA HAI. Yah banaa banaayaa avinaashi drama hai. -77 [WOT, Atma-bindi, Shivbaba] vimp

= We souls are very small star. .... How small the star is.

Is physical star so small? Not at all! But, Baba has to use that word to explain. Now- if we literally question - is it right to say soul as star - Yes or No?

42) If soul is not egg like, how come the word brahmaand is famous? If anyone wishes can churn on this.
SM 5-2-71(2):- Atmavon ke rahne ka sthaan vah nirakar Paramdham hai. Jisko Brahmaand bhi kahte hain. Atma koyi andey misla nahin hai. Atma to bindi misal hai.

My reply is- soul is like seed, and most of the seeds have egg/oval shape.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


Posts: 142
Link with BKs: BK
ओम शान्ति !
प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

Ref. 1st page of Yesterday’s Murli, Dt. 19/12/2016, आत्मा कोई छिपी हुई चीज नहीं है। जैसे मनुष्यों की, देवताओं की पूजा होती है, वैसे आत्माओं और परमात्मा की भी पूजा होती है। शिव के मन्दिर में जाओ तो ढेर छोटे-छोटे सालिग्राम रखे हुए हैं, जिनकी पूजा होती है।

Ref. 1st page of Today’s Murli, Dt.20/12/2016, अच्छा आत्मा क्या चीज है, उनका रूप रंग क्या है। नाम तो जानते हैं कि आत्मा है परन्तु वह कैसी है, क्या करती है? कैसे-कैसे पार्ट बजाती है? कितना समय पार्ट बजाती है? इस आत्मा की नॉलेज का कोई वर्णन कर न सके। अभी तुम जानते हो आत्मा छोटा स्टार है।

Let me repeat my points on:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I
Point No.1:- किसी चीज का रूप है, अर्थात उसको देखा जा सकता है I
Point No.2:- आत्मा की कोई न कोई आकृति है I (जैसे गोलाकार, अण्डाकार, त्रिभुजाकार, etc.) Soul has a shape.
Point No.3:- आत्मा, चाहे कितना भी छोटी क्यों न हो, उसकी कुछ आकर (Size) जरूर है I Soul has a size.

And today Point No.4:- आत्मा कैसी है ?, कह देते हैं भ्रकुटी के बीच चमकता है अजब सितारा I शिव बाबा भी यही कहते की आत्मा एक चमकती हुई बिन्दु हैं I मूल रूप में छोटे से छोटे बिंदु है, फिर उस बिंदु से प्रकाश की किरणें चारों तरफ निकलती है I (A point emitting light rays) प्यारे बाबा ने यह भी बोले हैं की परमात्मा कोई हजार सूर्य से तेजवान नहीं है, अर्थात आत्मा या परमात्मा से निकलती किरणें कोई तेज किरणें नहीं, जो की आँख सहन कर न सके, शीतल किरणे है I

मुझे 8 साल पहले BHEL, Hydrabad में Training के लिए जाना हुआ, ट्रेनिंग दौरान मुझे प्यारे बाबा की घर से (Township में स्थित ब्रह्माकुमारीज सेण्टर) भोजन प्राप्त हुआ, आखिर दिन सेण्टर की पूर्ब संचालिका सकुंतला बहन मुझे कुछ सौगात देने पूर्व दृष्टि दे रहे थे I तब मुझे उनकी भृकुटि में आत्मा की साक्षात्कार हुई I मेरा ख़ुशी का ठिकाना नहीं था, बहुत ही स्पष्ट रूप से मै उनकी भुकुटि से निकलती अनगिनत सफेद शीतल किरणें देखा I किरणें laser show की तरह बहुत महीन और सीधे थे I करीब 2 फ़ीट दुरी तक किरणें आ रही थी I

सार में यही है की आत्मा की रूप ज्योति बिंदु, light emitting point, bright, shining, प्रकाशयुक्त, प्रकाशमान, चमकीला है I

Here question arises:- Whether light rays can emit from energy? क्या ‘शक्ति’ से प्रकाश की किरणें निकल सकती ?

प्यारे बाबा ने हम बच्चों को दीपक कहते, स्वयं को दीपराज और हम सबको दीपरानियां कहते I सूर्य हो या सितारें, CANDLE हो या दीपक फिर आज की LED हो या सबसे छोटा particle PHOTON को क्या शक्ति कहेंगे ?

Regards
BK Atulya


Posts: 142
Link with BKs: BK
ओम शान्ति !
प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

Let me repeat the points on:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है I

Point No.1:- किसी चीज का रूप है, अर्थात उसको देखा जा सकता है I
Point No.2:- आत्मा की कोई न कोई आकृति है I (जैसे गोलाकार, अण्डाकार, त्रिभुजाकार, etc.) Soul has a shape.
Point No.3:- आत्मा, चाहे कितना भी छोटी क्यों न हो, उसकी कुछ आकर (Size) जरूर है I Soul has a size.
Point No.4:- आत्मा की रूप का वर्णन करें तो :- यह एक बिन्दु है, जिससे शीतल प्रकाश की किरणें निकलती रहती है I Soul is a point emitting cool light rays.

And Today Point No. 5:- Ref 1st page of Murli,Dt.20/12/2016,
अच्छा आत्मा क्या चीज है, उनका रूप रंग क्या है।


तो आत्मा की रंग भी है I मीठे बाबा ने बोले हैं की आत्मा की रंग कोई लाल नहीं परंतु सफेद है। Soul has a colour.

Here question arises:- Whether energy can have colour? क्या ‘शक्ति’ का कोई रंग हो सकता है ?

Regards
BK Atulya


Posts: 2493
Link with BKs: BK
Let me repeat my points on:- आत्मा का कोई रूप है IPoint No.1:- किसी चीज का रूप है, अर्थात उसको देखा जा सकता है I
Point No.2:- आत्मा की कोई न कोई आकृति है I (जैसे गोलाकार, अण्डाकार, त्रिभुजाकार, etc.) Soul has a shape.
Point No.3:- आत्मा, चाहे कितना भी छोटी क्यों न हो, उसकी कुछ आकर (Size) जरूर है I Soul has a size.

43) What is the real shape of the soul- among - "(जैसे गोलाकार, अण्डाकार, त्रिभुजाकार, etc.) " ?

मुझे 8 साल पहले BHEL, Hydrabad में Training के लिए जाना हुआ, ट्रेनिंग दौरान मुझे प्यारे बाबा की घर से (Township में स्थित ब्रह्माकुमारीज सेण्टर) भोजन प्राप्त हुआ, आखिर दिन सेण्टर की पूर्ब संचालिका सकुंतला बहन मुझे कुछ सौगात देने पूर्व दृष्टि दे रहे थे I तब मुझे उनकी भृकुटि में आत्मा की साक्षात्कार हुई I मेरा ख़ुशी का ठिकाना नहीं था, बहुत ही स्पष्ट रूप से मै उनकी भुकुटि से निकलती अनगिनत सफेद (white) शीतल किरणें देखा I किरणें laser show की तरह बहुत महीन और सीधे थे I करीब 2 फ़ीट दुरी तक किरणें आ रही थी I

44) I have experienced bliss in assuming both white as well as red in colour. In murlis, Baba has said both, but more times as red.
Again- I have experienced bliss in both oval shaped as well as point form.
In olden days- the logo used was only oval shape. So- I used to meditate in that form. Later the point shape picture came. Then I changed my way of meditation, I experienced the same seed stage even in that form. Now, I like to stick to the point form.
Baba says- "as the bhaavna, vision would be given. " On what bhaavnaa (feelings) we put effort - either in bhakti, or in gyaan, we will experience. In gyaan, the bhaavnaa would be more righteous, since we have knowledge.
See- Baba initially had said- infinite indivisible light, then thumb, then egg/oval shaped, then point.
Even though the right shape of a soul is point- we will experience bliss even in other forms. The only thing necessary is- to realize- I am a soul separate than body, eternal, God is also eternal, but above birth and deaths, and the time cycle. Once we understand the knowledge to considerable extent, automatically, we will be moving in right path if we are putting honest effort.

Baba has also said- "Kayi kahthay hain - itnee choti atma ko kaise yaad karey. Toh moti roop se yaad kar. Yaad toh karo = Some say- how to think of very small soul? Ok, you remember in larger form. "

When someone questions how can we be sure that soul resides in forehead, Baba even says- it is Ok to consider the soul resides in eye. Murli dated SM 10-1-87(1) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=15323&hilit=teekaa#p15323 . See how flexible the gyaan is, and how much freedom ShiVbaba has given.

46) We believe we see light. But, actually, we do not see light. It is our eye's response that makes us feel that- we can see some light. - http://www.philosophy.org/light.html

So- our experience is according to our ability to perceive which match to REALITY numberwise. That is why baba has to say gyaan in different ways- Another example- Post No. 59 -http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=8771#p8771
सार में यही है की आत्मा की रूप ज्योति बिंदु, light emitting point, bright, shining, प्रकाशयुक्त, प्रकाशमान, चमकीला है I


47) So- do not you feel you are contradicting with your own statement regarding the shape as you have ,mentioned in point 2) above?
----

48) Can energy be seen? Usually, ordinary people will accept- "light can be seen". (but in fact, it is not- as said in 46). In that way- we can say many energies can be seen.
For example, a body has potential energy due to its position. =mgh . m = mass, g= the gravitational acceleration, h = height(position). Since we can see the body/mass and its position- it is as good as we are seeing energy in the body.

Similarly- a moving body has KE (Kinetic Energy). = (1/2)(m) (v) (v) . [m= mass, v = velocity]
Since we can see the body and its movement, in one way - it is Ok to say- "we can see the energy in a moving body". Why not? (in words of common people).

See in the same link above- sakar murli dated 10-1-87(1) - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=15323&hilit=teekaa#p15323 , Baba is saying atma dekhney bhee aataa hai which means soul can be seen or as if some people have seen it (mostly may be like vision or what many people have experienced in meditation). Does it mean the shape of soul is exactly identical to the one what we see in the vision or meditation?

48b) Now- if we wish to to discuss about- Does energy have shape?
Electric and magnetic fields have definite patterns. All bodies have shape. So- again it can be argued energy has shape! But it would be ridiculous to say so. Because when we discuss about energy, we are bothered about its form and quantity, not the shape.

Similarly, I feel the questions-
Here question arises:- Whether light rays can emit from energy? क्या ‘शक्ति’ से प्रकाश की किरणें निकल सकती ?

Here question arises:- Whether energy can have colour? क्या ‘शक्ति’ का कोई रंग हो सकता है ?
are ridiculous.

49c) If we like to stick to the word- cheez/vastu/substance- then a question can arise- If soul is a substance- from what it is made up of? We know that soul is fundamental entity, it is anaadi, avinaashi, not made of anything. But, is we like to compare everything to lowkik material or science, then such question also would arise.

49d) Is light particle/corpuscles or wave? It is said to be both.
We know electron is very small particle. But, again electron is said to be both- particle and wave,
If we give oval shape, star shape to a soul or show it as bigger size, - we are actually not showing the soul- we are showing only the field around it. It is NOT the actual shape.
But, THERE IS NO HARM if we think a soul as a point, or oval shape, or big point or small point. AS one puts honest effort in whatever stage he is, he would then be able to perceive the higher level of realization, when he reads the other murli points too.

तो आत्मा की रंग भी है I मीठे बाबा ने बोले हैं की आत्मा की रंग कोई लाल नहीं परंतु सफेद है। Soul has a colour.

49e) To say- soul has a colour, would again be immaturity. To say even soul is light is also not fully right. Because light is part of the 5 physical element- earth, water, space, air, fire/light which belong to corporeal world. Is soul corporeal or incorporeal?
But- we human beings are attached to corporeal things- in that too- and most attached to the organ EYE or LIGHT, we have to explain only/mainly according to the vision only. So- I think Baba is explaining in that way. (regarding shape, colour, etc).

So- we say soul is "point of divine light and might" -right? (I hope you accept this definition of the soul. If you have objection, kindly mention). Now- what is divine here? Divinity can be argued to say -it is related to virtue rather than object. But, the origin is from the object. Hence we give the name divine to soul itself.

If your argument is- Light comes only from the object(say sun). So- to give the name light to sun is wrong, hence you prefer to stick just to the definition light emitting object, then we cannot even say soul as point of divine light and might. Like we say sun as light emitting object, we will have to say- an object emitting divinity Which definition would look good? - "Point of Divine Light and might" or "an object emitting divine light"?

SM 6-9-73(3):- Bachchon ka samjhaya gaya hai ki atma star hai jinko bindi bhi kahte hain. Stars may to aise koney hote hain. Bindi may nahin hoti. Stars isliye kahte kyonki bhent ki jati hai. Lucky sitaarey kaha jata. Hai bindi, usmey gyan ki chamak hai. Toh atma bindi hai usmey saaraa part hai. Baap kahte hain mujh bindi may bhi part hai jo phir bhaktimarg se bajata hun. ….. -100 [WOT, bindi]

Baba is saying - the light in a soul represents knowledge in it. It is NOT physical. But, in the meditation experience we would be perceiving it as if through physical eye. That is why - you saw it as 2 feet length Because we are attached to the organ eye to most extent.

But- there was the other experience too as you have said- "sheetal/coolness". In any meditation/spiritual experience, it would be "light and coolness, light and power, or light, coolness and power".
Light would ALWAYS be present. Because without light, nothing can make any sense in the world.
EYE is the only organ that has no limit. The far-point of the eye is infinity. We can see up to the end of sky. But, we cannot feel sky by any other organ.

Since to remember anything, we have to first visualize it, the eye comes at the first place. So- the size, shape and colour are the most important aspects. The most liked/pleasant colour is- white or golden red or golden yellow. I believe that is why baba has used these colours.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


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50) If someone questions- "Ok- you have said the shape and colour of a soul. Now, can you explain how does a soul tastes like?- Is it sweet, salty- sugar like or honey like.....? :) " Can we reply literally?
But- the words sheetal/coolness and power are enough. In the word coolness and power- all the rest- gynaaswaroop, premswaroop, shantswaroop, etc all come.

If we like to stick to just to word vastu/object, - "shape, size and colour"- then how would it be if someone asks- "What are dimension of soul? What is the frequency of the white light of the soul, etc?" [Electron has a radius].

51) More to the word light:- Light can be said to the knowledge, as well as to the purity. Baba says- knowledge sits in pure intellect. So- they are directly related. Which definition is better- "I am a pure soul" or "I am a soul emitting purity"? I am a peaceful soul or I am a peace emitting soul?

So- to feel oneself itself is embodiment of the divinity, there is no harm to say- soul is spiritual energy, an eternal entity, metaphysical entity, etc.

52) Regarding the word substance/object/vastu- matter is in three stages- solid, liquid and gas (and also now plasma). Does gas have shape? Obviously no. Even liquids take shape of the container.

53)Moreover- most of the space even in a solid object is empty. We know that the space occupied by the nucleus in an atom is very small, the rest are just empty. But, in common use, usually do not say so. Only when it comes to discuss to extreme things, we take it. Else, we just take as if the solid objects occupy the entire space of its boundaries.

54) But- your comments are fully right as- soul is an object - 100% agreed. Wonderful thing is- Kingdom is being established. Many Bks would understand and explain in different ways according to their perceptions. We all are Kings. So- some may prepare literature according to their level. It may be a slight mistake. If possible, you may inform them. But, what is sure that they like to accept it? So- sometimes drama takes care of it itself.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


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ओम शान्ति !
प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

अब तक हम अपनी अपनी समझ की वात कर रहे थे I पर हम सबकी परम शिक्षक ने तो हम सबको आत्मा के बारे में अलग अलग शिक्षा दी नहीं हैं I हम सव एक ही स्कूल के एक ही शिक्षक के एक ही पढाई पढ़ने वाले students है I

आत्मा को एक शक्ति मानने वाले बहनों, भाईयो को मेरा यह दो प्रश्न है I

1. आपकी यह मान्यता का आधार क्या है ?
a) परमात्म पढाई (--------) b) अपनी समझ (--------) c) अपना अनुभब (---------)

2. यदि आपकी यह मान्यता का आधार "परमात्म पढाई" है, कृपया बताएं - आपने कहाँ से पढ़ा या सुना ?
a) साकार मुरली (------) b) अब्यक्त मुरली (------) c) मम्मा की वाणी का पुस्तक (-----) d) जगदीश भाईजी की लिखी हुई पुस्तक (-----) e) दादी प्रकाशमणिजी की क्लास (-------) f ) दादी जानकीजी की क्लास (-------)

आपका भाई
ब. कु. अतुल्य


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ओम शान्ति !
प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

अभी तक मेरे दोनों प्रश्न का उत्तर नहीं मिला है, फिर भी जरूर आप मन में कुछ ना कुछ सोचा होगा I

मेरे प्रश्न का अभिप्राय यही है की:- यदि आपके मान्यता का आधार परमात्म पढाई है, तो :-

A .किसी भी मुरली में यह महावाक्य होना चाहिए की "आत्मा एक चेतन शक्ति है I"

B. परमात्म ज्ञान की मंथन करके सरल और सहजतासे समझाने वाली, ज्ञान की देवी, GODDES OF KNOWLEDGE, माँ सरस्वती की वाणी में यह होना चाहिए की "आत्मा एक चेतन शक्ति है I"

C.परमात्मा,निराकार शिव के द्वारा स्तापित ईस्वरीय विश्व विद्यालय की प्रवक्ता (spokesman),परमात्म ज्ञान की अछि तरह समझ करके अपनी लेखनी से परमात्म ज्ञान को सारी दुनिया के सामने रखने वाले तथा ईस्वरीय विश्व विद्यालय की अधिकांश किताब लिखने वाले आदरणीय जगदीश भाईजीकी कोई भी किताब में यह बाक्य होनी चाहिए की "आत्मा एक चेतन शक्ति है I "

D. ईस्वरीय विश्व विद्यालय की मुख्यालय में ईश्वरीय ज्ञान की ब्याख्यान देने वाले हमारा त्रिमूर्ति दादियों की अथाह classes, लिखित रूप में तथा recording के रूप में हमारे पास है I इस की अंतर्गत भी "आत्मा एक चेतन शक्ति है " यह शिक्ष्या होनी चाहिए I

आपका भाई
ब. कु. अतुल्य


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ओम शान्ति !
प्रिय बहनों और भाईओं,

आज की मुरली (05 /01 /2017 ) 2nd page :- प्यारे बाबा ने कहा है “बाबा कितना सहज कर समझाते हैं, फिर धारणा भी होनी चाहिए। फिर जाकर औरों को समझाना चाहिए। तुम गैरन्टी करते हो–
बाबा हम सुनकर फिर सुनायेंगे।


तो मेरे प्यारे बहनों और भाइयों, जब की हम ऐसी important point, हम मीठे बाबा से या मीठी मम्मा से या बड़ी दादियों से सुने ही नहीं की "आत्मा एक चेतन शक्ति है", तो हम क्यों बोलते हैं ?

क्या आपको नहीं लगता की आत्मा की बारे में यह एक important point है ?

क्या ज्ञान के सागर इस बाक्य को न बोल कर हमें आत्मा की पूरी समझ दिया नहीं हैं, जो की आज हमारी प्रायः सभी बहनें,भाई आत्मा की समझानी देते समय यह अबश्य बोलते हैं की “आत्मा एक चेतन शक्ति है I”

कोई कोई मेरे प्यारे बहनें, भाई सोचते हैं या मुझे बोलते भी हैं " इसमें नुकसान क्या है ?"

इस विषय में फिर से रूह रिहान करेंगे I

आज के लिए इतना ही कहना चाहता हूँ की जो मेरे बाबा बोले, वही मैं बोलूं, या जो मेरा बाबा की बोल हो वही मेरी बोल हो, तो कितना मजा आएगा, हम सब एक बाबा के एक मत वाले हो जाएंगे I अच्छा ,ओम शान्ति I

आपका भाई
ब. कु. अतुल्य

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