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# Post No. 58 :- More on Trimurtis:-:-

[You may refer to Posts No. 03, 24 to 28.]

Many times Baba says- I am trimurti. But, baba also has said- I am not Trimurti.

1)SM 18-12-76(1):- Bachche tum Trimurti Shiv Jayanti akshar likhte ho. Parantu is samay 3 murtiyaan to hai nahin. Tum kahenge ShivBaba Brahma dwara srushti rachte to Brahma zaroor sakar may hona chahiye na. BAAKI VISHNU AUR SHANKAR IS SAMAY KAHAAN HAIN JO TUM TRIMURTI KAHTE HO? Yah bahut samajhne ki baatein hain. Trimurti ka arth hee hai BVS(Brahma Vishnu Shankar) hai. Trimurti BVS raaz ko tum hi jaante ho. Yah bhi jaante ho Brahma dwara sthaapna. VAH TO IS SAMAY HOTI. Vishnu dwara paalna Satyug may hogi. Vinash ka kaary anth may hota hai. Isliye (the word) Trimurti Shiv ki Jayanti NAHIN HONI CHAHIYE. TEENON KO (the bhaktimarg people have) LAGAA DEE HAI. Shiv ki Jayanti hai.

=Children, you write the word TRIMURTI SHIV JAYANTI. But now there are no three murtis. You say ShivBaba creates srushti through Brahma, so Brahma should definitely be in corporeal, is it not? Where are the rest Vishnu and Shankar at present that you SAY TRIMURTI? This is a matter to understand deeply/more. Trimurti means Brahma Vishnu Shankar. You only know the secret of Trimurti BVS. (You) also know creation through Brahma. That happens at present. Sustenance through Vishnu will happen in Satyug. Destruction will happen in the end. HENCE IT SHOULD NOT BE TRIMURTI SHIV JAYANTI. (The bhatimarg people have ) mixed the three. (Actually it is just) Shiv Jayanti.

So, the context should be understood. Shivbaba needs only Brahma to perform his role, so actually needs/uses just ONE MURTHI/BODY.

The bhaktimarg people have mixed the three B, V, S together. - by saying role of creation through Brahma, and sustenance through Vishnu, and Destruction through Shankar. Since name of Shiv is absent in Gita (due to insertion of name krishna there), role of Shiv became fully ambiguous. Hence in lowkik, people have shown the creation as physical, sustenance as maintaining the world (they show Vishnu maintaining the world by killing demons) instead of real enjoyment of heaven or property. Even the final destruction is shown there as complete one (pralay- like dooms day).
Last edited by mbbhat on Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

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# Post No. 58a):- A correction said about Trimurti picture:-

2)SM 20-4-89(1):- Yah bhi bachche jaante hain Rudr_mala bhi hai jo gaayi aur pooji jati hai. Simiran ki jati hai. Bhakt_mala bhi hai. Oonche oonch bhakton ki maalaa hai. Hai to saari bhakt_mala, ravan_mala. Is kalp ke Sangamyug ke pahle jo bhi hain sab hai ravan_mala. Usmey phir bhakt_mala bhi hai. Bhakt_mala ke baad honi chahiye gyaan_mala. Bhakti aur gyaan hai na. Bhakt_mala bhi hai to rudr_mala bhi hai. Peeche phir rund_mala kaha jata hai. Kyonki oonche te oonch manushy srushti may hain Vishnu jisko sookshm_vatan may dikhate hain. LN raajy to yahaan karte hain to kahenge Vishnu ki rund_mala bhi hai. Prajapita Brahma to yah hai. Unki mala zaroor hai. Aakhrin yah mala bann jaayegi. Tab hi vah rudr_mala aur Vishnu ki rund_mala banegi. Oonche te oonch hai ShivBaba. Phir oonch te oonch hai Vishnu ka raajy. Yah trimurti jo dikhaya hai- usmey hona chahiye Brahma Vishnu aur Shiv na ki Shankar. Parantu baaju may Shiv ko kaise rakhen? To phir Shankar ko rakh diya hai. Aur Shiv ko oopar may rakha hai. Usmey shobha achchi hoti hai. Sirf do(=two) shobha nahin dete. Shankar ki mala nahin kahenge. Brahma Vishnu aur Rudr Mala; Bas. Shobha ke liye bhakti may kitney chitr banaye hain. Parantu gyaan kuch bhi nahin hai. Tum jo chitr banate ho unki pahchaan deni hai to manushy samajh jaaye. Nahin to Shiv Shankar ko mila dete hain. Baba ne samjhaya hai sookshm_vatan may bhi saari saakshaatkaar ki baath hai. Haddi maans vahaan hota nahin. Saakshaatkaar karte hain. Sampoorn Brahma bhi hai. Parantu vah hai sampoorn avyakti. Abhi vyakt Brahma jo hai, unko avyakt ban_na hai. Vyakt hi avyakt hota hai jisko pharista bhi kahte hain. Unka sookshmvatan may chitr rakh diya hai. Sookshmvatan may jate hain, kahte hain, Baba ne shoobi_ras pilaya. Ab vahaan jhaad aadi hota nahi. Vaikunth may hain, lekin aise nahin ki vaikunth se le aakar pilate honge. Yah sab sookshmvatan may saakshaatkaar ki baath hai. Ab bachche jante hain ab vaapis ghar jana hai. -154

= Children also know that rudr Mala is also there which is praised and worshipped. It is remembered/chanted. There is also bhakt Mala. It is of highest devotees. Actually all belong to bhaktmala, ravan Mala. All belong/ed to ravan Mala before confluence age in this kalp. In it there is also bhakt mala. After the bhakt Mala, gyan mala should form/come. There is bhakt mala and also rudr mala. Later it is said rundmala. Because highest of high in this creation is Vishnu who is shown in subtle world. LN rule here. So (we) say there is also Rund mala of Vishnu. This is Prajapita Brahma. Definitely there is mala of him. This mala will get formed in the end. Then only it will become rudrmala and rundmala of Vishnu (or- then only that rudrmala and rundmala will get formed). The highest of high is shivbaba. Then highest of high is kingdom of Vishnu. In the trimurti shown- there should be brahma Vishnu and shiv and not Shankar. But how can shiv be placed in the side? Hence Shankar is placed. And shiv is placed on the top. That looks good. Just two (below) does not look good. It cannot be said mala of Shankar. Brahma, Vishnu and Rudrmala. That is all. For show purpose, in bhakti, so many pictures are done. But, there is no knowledge at all. If you explain through the picture you prepare, people may understand. Else, they mix Shiv and Shankar. Baba has explained about subtle world that it is all about visions. There is no bones and flesh. Visions happen. There is also complete Brahma. The present vyakt(corporeal) Brahma will become avyakt. The same vyakt becomes avyakt. His picture is kept at subtle world. Children go to subtle world. They say baba gave us shoobiras to drink. Now, there is nothing like trees, etc. It would be in heaven. But it is not that baba brings it from heaven and gives. It is all about visions. Now, children know that we have to return home.

So- real trimurti picture should be Shiv on top and Brahma & Vishnu below. [Another correction is given in Post No. 97- viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1167&p=12335&hilit=sanaatan#p12335].
Since due to fault in Gita,

1)The transformation of the world was forgotten and they assumed that world is created physically by Brahma. Hence the word Purifier had got meaningless/no value at all.

2)This made Vishnu's incarnation as sambhavaami yuge2 = as if God incarnates in every age.

3)And, there is no link at all between the creation, sustenance and destruction. That is their happening time, duration were totally forgotten.

4)Vishnu became the hero, Shiv got mixed with Shankar or depicted as Shankar. Still what is role of Shankar? Nothing is explained..

Shankar's role to what extent it is there, yet to be understood. But, it would be very much less/small as said in murli.
Last edited by mbbhat on Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:30 am, edited 4 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 58b) :- Are BVS children of Shiv or not?

Due to fully fault in Gita and hence in other scriptures*, Shivbaba had to use bhakti concept only to give gyaan. Hence he used visions, the Prajapati concept, indivisible light concept, ling concept, etc to give knowledge.

*- For example- Shiv Puran is a famous epic in bhaktimarg. But, there is absolutely no mention of spiritual knowledge or incarnation of Shiv. Baba usually says- In lowkik, they show trimurti, but Shiv is not at all there.

Similarly, Shivbaba might have used trimurti concept to explain knowledge since it is already famous in bhakti.


= You should definitely put the word trimurti. Because there is gaayan (fame) of trimurti, is it not?

The two murli points appear to be contradictory:-

4)SM 26-3-81(3):- Kisko bhi samjhaa saktey ho BVS, teenon bhi Shiv ke bachche hain. -41- [BVS]

= You can tell anyone that BVS, all the three are children of Shiv.

5)SM 8-9-82(3):- SHIVBABA KA BACHCHAA EK BRAHMA HAI. Vishnu, Shankar ko bachchaa nahin kahenge. Kyonki bachche hain toh potra bhi chaahiye na. Is hisaab se Brahma hee bachchaa thah_raa. B so V bante hai. -11 [BVS]

= Shivbaba's child is just one Brahma. Vishnu and Shankar cannot be called as children. Because if there is child, then there should also be grand children. In this calculation, just Brahma alone is child. Brahma becomes Vishnu.

So- if we use trimurti picture for service (lowkik point of view), then we should use the former. For BKs, the latter point is applicable.
As Baba has said- I am not physically trimurti (do not enter physically in V and S), similarly, Baba says- practically, V and S are not my children. They do not become chariots. But, there is still no wrong to say- BVS as children of Shiv, since all are children of Shiv.

So, the context should be understood while baba speaks.
Last edited by mbbhat on Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 58c):- People know Brahma, Vishnu, and Shankar, but not Shiv:-

Baba sees from lowklik people's view/angle.. But, it still does not mean literally/fully. It just means people know that B, V, S have bodies, or know at least to some extent, but regarding Shiv, they know only zero. Even when people talk about incorporeal, they do not recognize that Shiv is a point of light. They believe infinite indivisible light, or just ling.

6)SM 31-1-73(1):- Duniya to Shiv ko jaanti nahin. BRAHMA VISHNU SHANKAR ko jante hain. Brahma ka din, Brahma ki raat bhi kahte hain.

= The world does not know about Shiv, but knows about Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. (They) say Brama’s day and Brahma’s night.

This means that people do not know that Shiv is point of light, but other concepts are quite famous in bhaktimarg.

7) SM 29-11-77(1, 2):- Baba ne samjhaayaa hai trimurti Shiv jayanti kahnaa hai. Sirf Shiv jayanti nahin. Trimurti Shiv ki jayanti theek hai. Is baari likhenge apni 42vi Shiv jayanti manaa rahe hain. BRAHMA BIGAR SHIV KAISE JANM LENGE? ISLIYE TRIMURTI SHIV RIGHT AKSHAR HAI. Brahma dwara humko varsaa dete hain. SHIVBABA HAI TOH VARSAA BHI SAATH MAY ZAROOR CHAHIYE. Toh yah Vishnu hai varsa. Brahma vaa Vishnu vaa Shiv toh vinaash nahin karenge. SHANKAR DWAARAA VINAASH GAAYAA HUVAA HAI. ISLIYE TRIMURTI KA CHITR HAI MUKHY. Trimurti chitr chalaa aayaa hai. Vahaan bhi tum raajy karte ho toh takht ke pichaadi Vishnu kaa chitr rahtaa hai. Yah jaise coat of arms hai. Inkaa arth duniyaa ke manushy nahin samajh sakte. -128-, 129

= Baba has explained that it is correct to say trimurti shiv jayanti. Not just shiv jayanti. Jayanti of trimurti shiv is right. This time (we) write 42nd shiv jayanti is being celebrated. WITHOUT BRAHMA HOW CAN SHIV GET BIRTH? HENCE TRIMUTRI SHIV IS RIGHT WORD. Through Brahma we receive property. WHEN THERE IS (introduction) SHIVBABA, EVEN THE PROPERTY ALSO SHOULD BE TOGETHER. SO THIS VISHNU IS THE PROPERTY. Brahma, Vishnu or Shiv will not do destruction. It is said- Destruction through Shankar. Hence trimurti picture is important. Trimurti picture has come from long before(or is famous). Even there(Satyug) when you rule Kingdom, picture of Vishnu will be backside of the throne. This is like coat/cote of arms. People of the world cannot understand meaning of these.
Last edited by mbbhat on Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 58d) Why Shankar is shown in Bhaktimarg:-

Baba says- actually destruction is fixed in drama. But, name of someone is to be mentioned, so name of Shankar is kept for that role.

8)SM 23-3-78(2):- To baap kahte hain purushaarth kar Sooryavamshi may aa jaavo. Baap ko yaad karo. Aise nahin kahte ki BVS ko yaad karo. BAHUT MANUSHY POOCHTE HAIN SHANKAR KA KYAA PART HAI. Preranaa se kaise vinaash karate hain. Bolo- yah to gaayaa huva hai. CHITR BHI HAIN TO IS PAR SAMJHAYA JATA HAI. VAASTAVA MAY TUMHAARAA KOYI IN BAATON SE CONNECTION HAI NAHIN. Pahle to samjho humko Baap se varsa lena hai. manmanaabhav ho jaavo. SHANKAR KYAA KARTA, PHALANAA KYA KARTA INMAY JAANE KI DARKAAR KYAA HAI? Tum sirf do akshar pakad lo. Baap aur varse ko yaad karo to Rajdhani mil jaavegi. BAAKI SHANKAR KO GALEY MAY SAAMP KYON DIYA HAI? YOG MAY AISE KYON BAITH_TAA IN BAATON SE KUCH CONNECTION NAHIN. Mukhy baat hai hee baap ko yaad karna. Baaki aise2 to dher prashn uthaavenge. Is_say tumhaaraa kyaa phaayda? TUM SAB BAATEIN BHOOL JAAVO. Baap kahte hain mujhe yaad karo to vikarm vinash honge. Hum baap ka sandesh dete hain. Yaad na karenge to vikarmajeet na banenge. Phir gyan ki dharna kaise hogi? Ulte sulte prashn koyi pooche to bolo pahle knowledge to samjho. Apne ko atma samajh Baap ko yaad karo. Baaki sab baatein chod do. Aage chal samajhte jaavenge. Varsa lene ki himmat dikhaavo. Hum baap ka sandesh dete hain. Phir karo na karo, tumhaari marji. Baap ke pass pavitr ban jaavenge to baap phir nayi pavan duniya may oonch pad devenge. Swadarshan chakr ko phiravo. 84 janmon ke chakr ko yaad karo. BAS. Jitnaa jo yaad karenge vahi vijaymala may piroye jaayenge. - 63-, 64

= ….. Many ask what is part of Shankar. How from inspiration destruction is going to happen? [b]Tell them- it is said so (in bhakti). Since in bhakti, there are such pictures, we are explaining. Actually, there is no your connection in such things. First understand that there is need to take property from father. Become manmanaabhav. What does Shankar do? What does this one do, there is no need to go into these things. You just hold two words. Remember father and property, you will receive Kingdom[/b]. Rest, why in the neck of Shankar, snake is show, why he is sitting in yoga like that- there is no connection of these. Main point is to remember father. Rest such questions – many would ask. What benefit is there in these? You forget all the things. father says- you remember me, then your sins will get burnt. We give message of father. If you do not remember father, you will not conquer sins. How can then knowledge be inculcated? If someone asks ulta sulta questions, tell them that first understand knowledge. Consider yourself as soyl and remember father. Levae all other things. You will understand later. Show courage to take property.........

9) SM 8-3-76(2):- Preranaa akshar wrong hai. Bhal kaha jata hai Shankar Bombs aadi banaane preranaa karte hain. Parantu yah drama may saari noondh hai. Is yagy se hee yah vinaash jwaalaa nikli hai. Preranaa nahin karte hain. Yah to vinaash arth nimitt bane hain. Drama may noondh hai. Kuch karte nahin hain. Baap ne samjhaayaa hai Shankar kaa itnaa part nahin hai. Vah next to Shiv hai. VAH NIMITT BANAA HUVAA HAI BAAP KE OOPAR NA PADE. Kyonki Baap vinaash kaise karaavenge. ISLIYE SHANKAR KO DIYAA GAYAA HAI. VAASTAV MAY MAHATW SHIVBABA KAA HAI. BRAHMA, VISHNU KAA HAI. SHANKAR KAA KYAA MAHATW RAKHENGE. UNKAA GAAYAN BHI NAHIN HAI. SHANKAR PURAAN NAHIN. SHIV PURAAN HAI. Shankar kaa roop bhi bhayankar bana diyaa hai. Saamp aadi galey may daal diyaa hai. Shankar ne Parvati ko kathaa sunaayi. Vah bhi baath hai nahin. ShivBaba ka hee saaraa part hai. UNKEY BAAD PHIR PART HAI BRAHMA VISHNU KAA. Brahma dwaaraa braahman rachte hain. Vah hee phir Vishnupuri ke maalik
bante hain. -100

=.......Father has said, there is no much part of Shankar. he is next to Shiv. He is made instrument (for destruction) so that the father is not criticized. HOW CAN FATHER DESTROY? HENCE NAME OF SHANKAR IS KEPT. Actually, the importance is of Shivbaba, Brahma and Vishnu. What praise of Shankar is there? There is not even gaayan of him. There is not even Shankar-puraan (there are Brahma-Puraan, and Shiv-Puraan scriptures). The form of Shankar is also shown as BHayankar (ferocious), .... The whole part is of ShivBaba. Next is of Brahma and Vishnu. Through Brahma, braahmins are created. The same (Brahma or Brahma and braahmins) become/s rulers of Kingdom of Vishnu.

10) SM 16-5-85(1):- Oonch te oonch hai Baap. PEECHE HAIN BRAHMA AUR VISHNU. SHANKAR KA ITNAA PART VAASTAV MAY HAI NAHIN. VINAASH TOH HONAA HEE HAI. Baap toh vinaash unsey karaate hain jis par koyi paap na lagey. Agar kahen Bhagavaan vinaash kartaa hai toh us par dosh pad jaaye. Isliye yah saari drama may noondh hai. -61 [destruction, Shankar, number one]

= .....There is no significant part of Shankar. (Anyhow) destruction is going to happen. Father does the act of destruction through them to whom sins would not incur. If it is said God does destruction, father will be hold as guilty. Hence all these are fixed in drama.

[Some causes will arise and the lowkik people themselves will fight against each other and destroy themselves. No one can be blamed for destruction]

11) SM 9-9-73(2):- Sabhi patiton ko pavan bananevaalaa ek hi Baap hai. Baki phir baad may numberwaar sabhi dharmvaale aate hain. CHRIST KI ATMA KO ACHCHAA PART MILA HUVA HAI. Baap ko to sabhi se achchaa part hai hi. Vah to creator, director hai. PHIR ACHCHA PART HAI BRAHMA VISHNU KA. Shankar ka to part hi vinash ka hai. Srushti ko badalna hi hai. Vinash jwaalaa nikalni hi hai. Is Ishwariy yagy se vinash jwala prajwalit hoti hai. Baki Shankar ka kaam kya hai? Yah mahima dee gayi hai. Sthaapnaa, vinaash aur paalnaa. Kis dwara? Naam to chahiye na. Chitron par poori samjhaani deni padti hai. Bigar samjhaane chitr koyi kaam kaa nahin. BVS ke occupation ko toh koyi nahin jaante. Baap aakar samjhate hain. Occupation to hai na. SHANKAR KO TOH YAHAAN AANAA NA HAI. NA PARVATI KO KATHA SUNAYI HAI. Kahte hain Shankar ke aankh kholne se vinash ho jata hai. Vah koyi vinash karte nahin hai. Yah tum bachche abhi samajhte ho. Baap kahte hain inhon dwara main sthaapanaa, vinaash aur paalnaa kartaa hun. KARAAVANHAAR KA ARTH CHAHIYE NA. Pandav Government ka head hai Bhagavaan. Krishn ki atma bhi is samay patit hai na. Bhagavaan aakar Krishn ki atma ko bhi pavan banate hain. Abhi Krishn ki atma swayam pavan banti jati hai. Krishn ki atma bahut janmon ke anth may kaho athvaa Brahma ki atma bahut janmon ka anth may kaho. Vah hai aadi, yah hai anth. Baath ek hee hai. To yah tum bachchon ko samjhaanaa hai. Shunkh dhwani karni hai. -212-

= ..... Father says- I get the acts- creation, sustenance and destruction done through these (BVS)..... There should be some meaning for the title KARAN-KARAAVANHAAR (One who gets the things done through others).

12) SM 3-2-76(1, 2):- Samajhte hai Shankar ki bhi prerana hoti hai. To vah yaadav moosal aadi banate hain. Parantu ismey prerana aadi ki to baath hee nahin. Tum samajh gaye ho unhon ka part hai drama may yah moosal aadi banana kaa. Prerana ki koyi baath nahin hai. Yah shaastron ke akshar hain. Shankar dwara vinaash. SHANKAR KO AISE RAKHA HAI JAISE RAVAN KO RAKHA HAI. RAVAN 5 VIKAARON KO KAHA JATA HAI NA. UNKA KOYI ROOP TO HAI NAHIN. NA KOYI PRERANAA KI BAATH HAI. VAISE SHANKAR DWARA VINAASH DIKHA DIYA HAI. Ab Shankar to sookshmvatan may hain. Vahaan se koyi prerana chalti nahin. Drama anusaar vinaash to zaroor hona hi hai. Gaya huva hai Mahabharat ladaayi may moosal kaam may aaye. To jo past ho gaya hai vah phir repeat hoga. Tum guarantee karte ho hum Bharat may swarg sthapan karenge. Jahaan ek dharm hoga. Tum aise nahin likhte anek dharm vinaash honge. Vah to chitr may likhaa huva hai swarg ki sthaapanaa hoti hai to doosraa koyi dharm hota nahin. BAAKI SHANKAR AADI KI ISMEY KOYI BAATH NAHIN HAI. PARANTU CHITR HAI, GAAYAA HUVA HAI, TO SAMJHAAYAA JATA HAI. BRAHMA DWARA STHAAPNAA, VISHNU DWARA PAALNAA TO THEEK HAI. Shankar ko phir Shiv saath mila diya hai. ShivShankar kah dete hain. KYONKI SHANKAR TO KOYI KAAM NAHIN KARTA HAI NA. TO SHIV SE MILA DIYA HAI. PARANTU SHIVBABA KAHTE HAIN MUJHE TO BAHUT KAAM KARNA PADTAA HAI. SHANKAR KI MERE SAATH TO KOYI BAATH HEE NAHIN. Vah to sookshmvatanvaasi aakaari hai. Main to is sakar tann may aakar in dwara sthaapnaa ka kaary kartaa hun. Shankar ka to itnaa part hai nahin. SHANKAR KI POOJA KAR MANUSHY KYAA KARENGE? Shiv ki pooja hoti hai. Shiv Paramatma nahmah kahte hain. BRAHMA BHI TO PRAJAPITA BRAHMA THAHRA NA. BAAKI SHANKAR KE LIYE KAHTE HAIN KI YAH DHATURAA KHAATE THEY, JAISE KI UNKA KOYI ROYAL PART NAHIN HAI. DHATURAA KHAAYAA, BHANG PEETE THEY. Yah sab shaastron may kathaayein baith banayi hai. ABHI TUMKO SAMAJH MAY ATAA HAI SABHI SE BADA PART HAI SHIV KA, BRAHMA KA AUR VISHNU KA. Brahma ko Vishnu aur Vishnu ko phir Brahma. Yah badi guhy baatein hain. Sensible bachchon ki buddhi may jhat aa jaataa hai. Daivi sampradaay to ban_ne hi hain. Ek ki baath nahin hai. In baathon ko tum bachche samajhte ho. Duniyaa may ek bhi manushy nahin samajhte. Bhal LN va Vishnu ki poojaa bhi karte hain, Parantu unko yah pata nahin ki Vishnu hi phir LN bante hain. Vishnu ke do roop LN hain, jo nayi duniyaa may raajy karte hain. Baaki 4 bhujavaalaa manushy koyi hota nahin. Yah sookshmvatan may aim object dikhaate hain pravruttimaarg kaa. -48,48- [sookshmvatan, Prajapita]

Baba says- picture of Shankar is kept like ravan. [Actually ravan does not exist or plays role physically. Vices degrade us. Still picture of someone(Ravan) is kept. Similarly, picture of Shankar is also placed.
Last edited by mbbhat on Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 58e)-How Shankar got mixed with Shiv?

13)SM 9-5-82(3):- Baap hai niraakaar, gyaan ka sagar. Vah is rath may pravesh karte hain. VAH TO SHIVSHANKAR KAH DETE. AB SHIV TO (BYEL PAR) SAVARI KAR NA SAKE. Isliye phir Shankar kah dete hain. To bachchon ko bahut rahamdil ban_na chahiye. -9-

= Father is incorporeal, ocean of knowledge. He enters in this chariot. They say shivshankar. NOW/since- SHIV CANNOT RIDE (ON BULLOCK). HENCE THEN (THEY) HAVE SAID SHANKAR. So children should become highly merciful.

One possibility:- In earlier time of bhaktimarg, in Shiva(ling) temples, Nandi/Bull might have shown as vehicle of Shiv by the devotees at that time. Later some might had got doubt- “How can Shiv (ling or incorporeal entity) sit on bull?” So- to give a satisfactory reply, later onwards, they might have shown form of a human form Shankar to Shiv. Like some people consider Shivling as reproductive/physical organ of Shankar, instead of light (which is the right one). Even today, it is matter of debate. Some believe Shiv ling is light, but some believe otherwise.

14) SM 1-9-81(1, 2):- Gaayaa huva hai brahma dwara sthapnaa Vishnu dwara paalnaa to theek hai. Lekin Shankar ko shiv ke saath milaa diyaa hai. Yah wrong hai. Shivshankar kah dete hain. KYONKI SHANKAR TO KOYI KAAM NAHIN KARTE TO SHIV SE MILA DIYAA HAI. Parantu shivbaba kahte hain mujhe to bahut kaam karnaa padtaa hai. Sabko pavan banana padtaa hai. Main is brahma may pravesh kar is sakar dwara sthaapnaa kaa kaary karaataa hun. Shankar ka to koyi part hai nahin. Shiv ki poojaa hoti hai. Main hee kalyaankaari jholi bharneyvaalaa hun. Shiv parmaatmaaya namah kahte hain na. YAH BRAHMA BHI PRAJAPITA THA_RAA. Brahma so Vishnu, Vishnu so Brahma. -1,1-

= It is said creation through brahma and sustenance through Vishnu; that is correct. But Shankar is mixed with Shiv. This is wrong. They say ShivShankar. SINCE SHANKAR DOES NOT DO ANY WORK, HE IS MIXED WITH SHIV. But shivbaba says- i need to do lot of work, i have to purify all. I enter in this brahma and through this corporeal get done the work of creation. There is no part of Shankar. Pooja/worship of Shiv takes place. I am the one who is benefactor and the one who fill bags. It is said Shiv is God, is it not? THIS BRAHMA IS ALSO PRAJAPITA. Brahma so Vishnu, Vishnu so Brahma.

Related murli points:-

15) SM 24-9-82(1):- Bhagavaan ne gita paathshaalaa banaayi hai jahaan sabko gyaan ghaas, gyaan amrut khilaayaa hai. Koyi kahtey Krishn ki gowshaalaa. Koyi kahtey Brahma ki. Lekin hai kyaa? SHIVBABA KO SHARIR NA HONEY KAARAN BRAHMA SE MILAA DIYAA HAI. Baaki Krishn ko toh gow paalney ki darkaar nahin. Krishn ko patitpaavan nahin kahenge. Gandhiji bhi gita ko uthaakar much se Sitaram uchchaartey rahthay thay. Kyonki vah toh Ram, Krishn, Kuch, Much sabmey Bhagvaan maantey hain. PAHLEY HUM BHI AISEY SAMAJHTHAY THAY. HUMAARAA BHI BUDDHI KA TAALAA BUND THAA. Gita padhkar pitron ko anchali dete thay to unhon kaa udhdhaar ho jaaye. Ganga may nahaaney se bhi udhdhaar hogaa. Guru karenge to bhi udhdhaar hogaa. – 31 [gita, Brahma, Shankar, Shivbaba, WOT]

= God established Gita paathashaala(school), where grass of knowledge and nectar of knowledge are fed. Some say- gowshaala( gathering of cows) of krishna. Some say it is of Brahma. But, what? Since Shivbaba does not have body, he is mixed with Brahma.

God has been mixed with many personalities in different religions. But, in case of Shankar it is 100%. Like name ravan is used fully for vices, similarly, Shankar got fully mixed with Shiv.
Last edited by mbbhat on Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
11)SM 07-11-72(1):- Bholaanaath Shankar ko naheen kahenge. Kyonki Shankar aadi, madhy, ant kaa raaz naheen samjhaate hain. Vah to bholaanath hee bataate hain. Bholanaath varsaa dete hain, Shankar varsaa naheen dete hain. AISE BHEE NAHEEN SHANKAR KOYI SHAANTI DETE HAIN. NAHEEN. SHAANTI DENE KE LIYE BHEE SAKAAR MAY AAKAR SAMJHAANAA PADE NA. SHANKAR TOH SAKAR MAY AATAA NAHEEN HAI. Bholaanaath hee sukh, shaanti, sampatti sabhee dete hain. Aayu bhee badi dete hain. -8

= Shankar is not called as Bholanath. Because Shankar does not teach secrets of beginning, middle and ends. Bholanath only teaches this. Bholanath gives property. Shankar does not give property. It is also not like this- “Shankar gives something peace”. NO. There is necessity to come in sakar and teach even to give peace, is it not? Shankar does not come in sakar. Bholanath himself gives peace, wealth, and everything and even long life. [= SM 5-11-87(1)]

12) SM 7-9-77(3):- Gaayaa bhi jata hai Brahma dwara braahman, devtaa aur kshatriy dharm ki sthaapnaa. Yah toh seedhi baath hai. Sadguru toh ek hee hai. Brahma ka bhi vah Guru ho gaya. Vishnu ka Guru nahin kahenge. Brahma ka guru ban unko Vishnu devtaa banaya hai. Shankar ka bhi guru kaise ho sakta? SHANKAR TO PATIT BANTAA HEE NAHIN. UNKO GURU KI KYAA DARKAAR HAI? Brahma toh 84 janm lete hain. Visnhu ke bhi 84 janm kahenge. SHANKAR KE THODE HEE 84 JANM HOTE HAIN JO UNKO GURU KI DARKAAR RAHE. NAHIN. SIRF BRAHMA KAA HEE GURU THAH_RAA. Unki sadgati hoti hai to jaakar Vishnu bante hain. Kitnee achchi2 baatein hain. Jitnaa dhaaran karenge aur karaavenge, pad bhi oonch paavenge. -9-

= It is said, Creation of braahmin, deity and kshatriy religions through Brahma. This is straight/direct matter. Sadguru is just one. Guru of even brahma is himself (the sadguru). It cannot be said Guru of Vishnu. (The Sadguru) has become guru of Brahma and then have made him Vishnu. HOW CAN THERE BE GURU OF/TO SHANKAR? SHANKAR NEVER BECOMES IMPURE. WHAT IS THE NEED OF GURU TO HIM? Brahma takes 84 births. Even (we) say 84 births of Vishnu. (WHAT IS) THE NEED OF GURU TO SHANKAR WHEN HE DOES NOT TAKE 84 BIRTHS? No. (The Sadguru) is Guru of just Brahma. When sadgati of Brahma happens, he becomes Vishnu. How good matters/topics are. More you understand and teach others, better your status would be.

13)9-9-77(2):- Sookshmvatan may to varnon ki baath nahin hai. Brahma ko Prajapita kahte hain. Vishnu ko to Prajapita nahin kahenge. Brahma to adopt kiya jata hai. Vishnu ke do roop LN se to bachche paidaa hote hain jo takht par baith_te hain. Shankar ko bhi Prajapita nahin kahenge. SHANKAR KA TOH EK BAAR PART HAI. Yah bhi tum jaante ho jaisi2 bhaavnaa hai, vaisaa saakshaatkaar hota hai. -12

= …….. Shankar cannot be called as Prajapita. There is part of Shankar just once.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
14)SM 30-7-81(1):- Shivbaba Brahma may aakar Vishnupuri ki sthaapnaa kar rahe hain. Saamney khade hain. Oopar may hain ShivBaba. Brahma aur Vishnu bhi yahaan chahiye. SHANKAR KA PART HI OOPAR MAY HAI THODA SAA. ShivBaba ne Brahma dwara sthaapanaa ki thi. Ab kar rahe hain. Yah hai pravruttimarg. RAJ VIDYA MAY BHI BARRISTER PADHATE HAIN TO MALE FEMALE DONON PADHTE HAIN. FEMALES BHI JUDGE BARRISTER AADI BANTI HAI. Yah bhi pravruttimarg hai. Sanyasiyon ka hai nivruttimarg. Vah alag hai, yah alag hai. Yah bhi Baba ne samjhaya hai Shankarachary agar na aataa to pavitrata ka ang na rahta. Bharat bilkul hi jal marta. Yah noondh hai Bharat to thamane liye. Bharat bahut pavitr thaa. Phir apavitr bana hai. Abhi Bharata kitna kangaal hai. KAHTE HAIN SONEY KI LANKA SAMUDR KE NEECHE CHALI GAYI. AB LAKNA TO SONEY KI HO NAHIN SAKTI. Yah sab kahaaniyaan baith likhi hai. -142, 142-

= Shivbaba has come in Brahma and is creating Vishnupuri. (Visnhu) is standing in the front. At top (of trimurti picture) there is shivbaba. Brahma and Vishnu are needed here. SHANKAR’S PART IS ONLY AT ABOVE, (AND ALSO JUST) A LITTLE. Shivbaba had done creation through Brahma. Now he is doing. …… they SAY GOLDEN LANKA WENT BELOW THE OCEAN (GOT DROWNED). Now, Lanka cannot be of gold. These all are stories which are written.
But, there are a few murli points on Shankar where baba has mentioned them as important to some extent. As time goes, baba may speak. But, to put effort, such things- seem no importance.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 59:- Murli points cannot be taken literally all the times.

1) In murlis, it is said many times that- "In Golden Age, rivers of milk and ghee would flow".

So- initially I had believed that (even if there was a a doubt in the form of surprise), in heaven there would be physical rivers of milk and ghee.

But, later I saw another murli point saying- "There cannot be rivers of milk or ghee. In heaven, everything would be plenty, hence it is praised as rivers of milk and ghee flow there".

2) Another example:- There is a murli point that says- "When Krishn takes birth, the whole room would get/become bright".

Initially I had again believed that some physically light will or may emerge. But, later found the following murli point.

SM 22-3-83(3):- Is samay knowledgeful Gyaansagar baap se tum bhee gyaansagar ban rahe ho. Knowledge milti hai. Baaki aisey naheen ki koyi tejomay ban jaate hain. Yah hai badhaayi. Jaise Krishn ki badhaayi kee jaati hai. Jab vah janmataa hai, toh saare ghar may roshni2 ho jaati hai. Ab usee samay toh thaa hee swarg din. Roshni toh thee hee. Baaki aisey thode hee koyi light niklegi. Yah bhi sirf mahimaa kee jaati hai. Vaise hee parampita parmaatmaa bhee param aatmaa hai. -111-

= Now from knowledgeful ocean of knowledge father, you also are becoming ocean of knowledge. It does not mean someone will become bright. This is praise. Like for Krishn, it is praised - when he takes birth, the whole house illuminates. Now, during that time, it was day, heaven. Light was definitely there. It is not that light comes. It is just matter of praise. . .....
-------------------- ----------

Post No. 59b) Regarding Magadh desh (Magadh country), Lanka and Dwarika:-

There is a murli point that says- "Father comes in Magadh country". Some(pbks) take it literally and say God/ShivBaba comes in region around Uttar Pradesh state of India (ancient name of the land between Ganges and Yamuna in India). But, from the following murli points, we can see Baba uses words like Magadh, Dwarkaa, Lanka since they have been used in bhaktimarg scriptures. Even though in lowkik world, Lanka is said to just to the island Ceylon, Baba says the whole world is unlimited Lanka where these is Kingdom of Ravan. Similarly, he says the whole of India is (unlimited) Dwarka (not just the city in Gujarat). Similarly, when we see all the murli points, we will feel that whole of India is referred to as Magadh by ShivBaba.

1)SM 23-5-81(1):- Shiv Jayanti bhi yahaan manaayi jaati hai. Yahaan magadh desh may hee janm liya hai. Baap kahte hain yah bharat desh bahut pavitr swarg thaa. ABHI INKO MAGADH DESH KAHA JATA HAI. PHIR SWARG BAN_NAA HAI.

= Shiv Jayanti is celebrated here. (Shiv) has taken birth here in magadh desh itself. Father says this Bharat?India country was very pure, heaven. NOW, THIS IS CALLED AS MAGADH DESH. This will later become heaven.

Note the word "Now" above.

2)SM 3-9-81(2):- Baap bhi bharat may aate hain. Aakar 84 ka chakr samjhaate hain. Baap kahaan aaye hain, yah bhi nahin jaante hain. Baap khud aakar batlaate hain tab pataa padtaa hai. KAHAAN LIKHAA BHI HAI PARMATMA MAGADH DESH MAY AATAA HAI. -4-

= father also comes in heaven. He comes and explains about 84 births. They even do not know where father has/had come (birthplace of father). When Father himself comes and explains they come to know. Somewhere it is written that father comes in Magadh country. [baba is referring to lowkik scriptures].

3)SM 14-9-77(1):- “Meethay bachche- Is yagy may jab sabhi swaahaa ho, tab jayjaykaar ho aur Bharat soney ki dwaarikaa baney”. – 56

= Sweet children, when everything become swaahaa (sacrifice) in this yagya, then there would be victory and India would become golden Dwarka. [Not just the Dwarika city in Gujarat]

4)SM 29-7-77(2):- Vaastav may Bharat toh sabkaa badaa teerth hai. Sabki sadgatai karnevaalaa jo Baap hai, unkaa janm yahaan Bharat may hotaa hai. Kahaan? VAH BHI LIKHAA HUVAA HAI MAGADH DESH MAY. Abhi tumko pataa padaa hai Baap kaise bharat desh may aate hain. Ab kounsaa teerth sthaan oonch maanenge? Zaroor Bharat ko hi maan_naa padey. Shiv ke mandir toh jahaan tahaan hai. SAB DHARMVAALEY JAHAAN BHI SHIV KAA MANDIR DEKHENGE, TOH JAAKAR SHIVBABA PAR HAAR CHADHAAVENGE. AGAR JAAN JAAVE KI SHIVBABA HI HAI JISNEY HUM SABKI SADGATI KI HAI. -43- [magadh, gita, mandir]

= Actually Bharat is highest pilgrimage. Father takes birth in India. Where? That is also written as Magadh. Now, you know how father comes in India.....

5)SM 11-10-77(2):- Saari duniyaa par ravan rajy hai. SAARI DUNIYAA LANKAA HAI. Ek Ceylon kaa bet Lanka nahin hai. Vah to hadh ki lankaa hai. Parantu badi behad ki Lanka to saari srushti hai. Unkey chaaron taraf saagar hai. Ab saari duniyaa par ravan raajy hai. Ram ke raajy may itney manushy nahin thay. RAVAN RAJY MAY SRUSHTI VRUDDHI KO PATI HAI. Jab ram rajy hai toh ravan rajy nahin kaha jata hai. Kahtey hain neeche paathaal may chala jaataa. Phir ravan rajy aataa. Toh ram rajy neeche chala jaavegaa. VAH PHIR OOPAR AAVEGAA TO SATYUG, TRETAA NEECHE CHALA JAAVEGAA NA. Toh chakr kee baatein un_honey aise likh diyaa hai. Baaki koyi sagar may to nahin chala jaataa yaa sagar se nikal aataa. Baba samjhate hain yah badi guhy baatein hain. Ismey purity first aur yog pukka. Isko kaha jata hai full sanyaas. Is duniya se buddhiyog khalaas. -57, 58-

= There is Kingdom of ravan in the whole world. The whole world is lanka. Just the one island Ceylon is not Lanka. But, the unlimited Lanka is the whole universe. There is ocean at all sides of it (universe or world).


= This Ravan's unlimited lanka is going to get destroyed. This Ceylon which is shown (in scriptures) is totally wrong. Ceylon is an island in the midst of sea. Father explains that the whole world is at the top of ocean. Ocean is surrounding everything.....

7)Father comes in a Magadh country which is a very downtrodden country; it is very sinful; the eating habits are also very dirty. [Mu 5/9/89 Pg-02]

In scriptures, the places Dwarika, Lanka and magadh are famous. Dwarika is shown as best, prosperous, virtuous, so it represents heaven. Lanka is shown as Kingdom or ravan. Magadh is shown as place where people were vicious, egoistic and had bad habits or life style. So- Baba says- I come when people's life style become like that of magadh as described in scriptures.

Since Baba is ocean of knowledge, and has role to explain essence of scriptures, he uses bhaktimarg terms and explains their significance.
Last edited by mbbhat on Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2523
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 60:- Adam = Eve

1)SM 14-6-73(3):- Baaharvaale kahte hain Oh Godfather. Achchaa, father ke saath mother bhi honi chahiye. Eve kahte hain, parantu vah koun hai, Eve kisko kahte hain? Mamma ko Eve nahin kahenge. Mamma to Jagadamba hai. EVE INKO(BRAHMA) HEE KAHENGE. Kyonki inkey mukh dwara rache. Tab to Maatpitaa siddh ho. EK KO HEE MAAT_PITAA KAHA JATA HAI. Jagadamba kee bhi Maa honi chahiye. Vah bhi human hai. YAH SABHI BAATEIN DHAARAN TAB HO JAB NIRANTAR DEHI ABHIMAANI KAA PURUSHAARTH KAREY. TAALAA KHULTAA JAAVEGAA. Yaad nahin to paththar buddhi ko dhaarnaa ho nahin sakti. Maya badi jabardasth hai. Yaad na karenge to tounsaa maartee rahengi. -86 [maatpita, adiDev]

= Outside people (mostly foreigners) say- Oh God father. Good, with father, there should also be mother. They say- Eve, but who is she? To whom it is said as Eve? Mamma cannot be called as Eve. Mamma is World Mother. Eve is said to this (Brahma ) only. Because it is through mouth of this creation occurs. Then only the word maatpita is proved. Maatpita (mother and father) is said to only one (or one personality). There should be mother of even Jagadamba. She (mother of Jagadamba) is also human. All these matters would be understood only if continuous practice to remain in soul conscious stage is done. If there is no remembrance, the stone intellect will not imbibe. ....

2)SM 29-9-78(1):- Gaate hain Maatpita….. Pita sarvavyaapi toh Maataa kahaan gayi? Yah samajhne ki baath hain na. Maatpita chaahiye na. MAATPITAA KAHAA JATAA HAI NIRAAKAAR KO. Parantu yah samajhte nahin ki inko Maatpita kyon kahaa jaataa hai. Vah toh god father hai. PHIR KAHTE HAIN ADAM AUR EVE. ADAM HEE EVE HAI. YAH NAHIN SAMAJHTE. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA, VAHI PHIR MATA HO JAATI HAI. Adam aur eve athvaa aadam beebi kahte hain. Parantu arth nahin samajhte. Bachche samajh sakte hain AADAM, BEEBI VAASTAV MAY YAH HAI. BEEBI SO AADAM HAI. UNKO BEEBI, AADAM, DONON KAH DETE. Vah toh hai baap. Yah badi pecheelee baatein hain. Bharat may gaate hain tum maatpitaa. -91, 91- [Maatpita, Adam, eve, Prajapita]

= they say - you are maatpitaa.... If Father is omnipresent, then where is mother? these are points to understand. there is need of maatpita, is it not? maatpita is said for the incorporeal. But, they do not understand why maatpita is said to this? He is god Father. then they say adam, eve. Adam only is Eve.. They do not understand that Prajapita Brahma then becomes mother. They say adam and eve or aadam-Beebi, but do not understand. Children can understand that, in reality,Aadam, Beebi is this (Brahma). [b]Beebi is Aadam. He is both Adam and eve. He(ShivBaba) is father. These are very confusing things. ...

In lowkik world - it is believed that creation happens through Adam and Eve. But actually, there is no physical creation. It is transformation. The creation begins from giving the knowledge. It comes through mouth of Brahma, and hence he is mother Eve.

Baba many times stresses that- both father and mother are one personality, because creation occurs only through one body. Hence as the process, both Adam and Eve are Brahma baba, mamma is daughter , and not mother.

But, Baba also says that both the titles father and mother does not do to Brahma. Hence in lowkik, he gets only that of father (hence Adam). And- the the title of Eve goes to mother. More points in the next posts.
Last edited by mbbhat on Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


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