Board index BK Section (BKs & New BK students only please) BK churning, realisations, and musings The knowledge, events, incidents and mysteries

The knowledge, events, incidents and mysteries

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
Dear Baba,

I am trying to do churning on the knowledge and find out or come out something what I see or feel. Please make me in your remembrance as much as possible while writing this.

Here, I will take one by one example and move. I am not claiming that- what I am going to write is fully correct. They are just my views. If they become useful to some, good.
Sub Titles/Topics:-

#Post 1:- Teaching from KNOWN TO UNKNOWN:-
# Post 02:- Incarnation and Chariot:-
# Post 03:- Use of Trimurti
# Post 04 Why does Baba mentions Gita now and then in Murli?
# Post 05:- Teaching using bhakti words- Tum maatpitaa hum baalak terey, tumhen paakey milaa sukh ghanerey = You are our Mother-Father. By getting you, we got unlimited happiness-
# Post No. 06 - Regarding maatpita (mother and father)
# Post 07) Continuation
# Post No. 08)Continuation
# Post 09 More about Trimurti
# 9b)What is right picture of Trimurti?
Post No. 10)Example/Point No. 04:- Farukkhaabaadvaaley maalik ko maante hain= those who live in farukkhaabad believe in maalik (master= owner)

# Post No. 11:- ShivBaba adopts lowkik Gita scripture:-
# Post No. 12)Are there some children ahead than Mama and Brahma Baba?
# Post no. 13) How Baba used to praise?
# Post No. 14) More praises of Baba whether real or just to motivate:-
# Post No. 15)Practically there is no World Emperor:-
# Post No. 16):- Can God have many names?:-
# Post No. 17 :- Initially all had been like Babies:-
# Post No. 18 :- Almost all are babies!
#Post No. 19:- What does Baba mean by ordinary chariot?
# Post No. 20:- Great Difficulty for ShivBaba in the Beginning, How to realize Teacher/ShivBaba?

Post No. 21 :- How does Drama control?
Post No. 22:- Is ShivBaba puppet within the hands of drama?
Post No. 23 :- WHO ALL ARE CREATORS and HOW?
Post No. 24:- Is there Subtle Region?
Post 25 Why Baba introduced concept of Subtle Region?
# Post No. 26:- Few Murli points:-
Post No. 27:- Few more murli points about Subtle Region:-
Post No. 28)More on subtle world:-
Post No. 29:- What does Baba mean by the term brother-sister?
Post No. 30:- Continuation
Post No. 31:- Continuation
Post No. 32:- Continuation

# Post No. 33)Biography of ShivBaba:-
Post No. 34:- Mis interpretation of the names Shiv and Shivbaba by splinter group:-
# Post No. 35:- Mis interpretation of Lakshmi Narayan by splinter groups:
# Post No. 36:- Should we bother about legal structure of BKWSU, etc, etc?
# Post No. 37:- Old points will not come into use:-
Post No. 38:-What is srimath when we get doubt?
# Post No. 39:- Why there is so much difference in the personality of speech between sakar and avyakt murlis?
# Post No. 40:- Importance of the word Prajapita:-
Post No. 41:- How initial deities will take birth?
Post No. 42:-Better not to stick into figures and physical facts:-
Post No. 43:- How many Kings would be there in heaven?
Post No. 44:- Continuation

# Post No. 45:-Way of teaching of Baba - sometimes highly challenging:-
# Post No. 46)
Post No. 47:- Prajapati as Creator in lowkik gita:-
# Post No. 48) Desire/Effort for Heaven- what and why?
Post No. 49 :- Who experiences pain when Gulzar Dadi coughs?
# Post No. 50:- Clarification about Subtle World:-
# Post No. 51) Degradation due to mis understanding of Gita:-
# Post No. 52:- Not fully understanding of murli point might have created a great mistake in ladder picture:-
# Post No. 53 Is Brahma Baba baby intellect/buddhi?
# Post No. 54 :- Prediction of false BKs (break way or splinter groups as well as in lowkik):-
# Post No. 55)Prediction of 1976 as year of destruction:-
# Post No. 56 :- What is Success?

#Post No. 57 Is Success a goal or journey?
# Post No. 58 :- Regarding Trimurti:-
# Post No. 58a):- Continuation- regarding Trimurti:-
# Post No. 58b)Continuation-Trimuti:-
# Post No. 58c):-Baba sees from lowklik people's view/angle.
# Post No. 58d)-Why should trimurti be used? To prove incarnation/creation
# Post No. 59:- Murli points cannot be taken literally all the times:-
Post No. 59b) Regarding Magadh desh (Magadh country), Lanka and Dwarika:-
# Post No. 60) In reality, Adam = Eve
# Post No. 61:- A slight difference between Adam/Prajapita and Adi Dev.
# Post No. 62:- Is ShivBaba also Prajapita/Jagatpita?
# Post No. 63:- Can Shivbaba be called as Adam?

# Post No. 64:- Brahma so Vishnu in a Second
# Post No. 65:- Can God speak harsh/tough words?
# Post No. 66 :- Why is Brahma not much worshiped?
# Post No. 66b:- ShivLing is not Phallus:-
# Post No. 67 :- Why does Brahma Baba speak in between?
# Post No. 68:- Different meanings for Alaf and Be/Bey
# Post No. 69 Word Allah, Bhagavaan, Shivbaba used in different ways:-
#Post No. 70:- Should we remember Brahma?
# Post No. 71:- What could be the reason for throwing or burying the murlis?
# Post No. 72)An important Murli point:-
# Post No. 73) No. of births in an age and average life span.

# Post No. 74)About failure of prediction of destruction:-
# Post No. 75) Population at the end of Silver Age:-
# Post No. 76)A murli point cut without understanding:-
# Post No. 77)All the mistakes happen due to title of braahmins given to deities:-
# Post No. 78)Significance of the word "BAAPDADA":-
# Post No. 79)Two types of chandaals in heaven
# Post No. 80)Caste System, Dowry, Servants, etc:-
# Post No. 81)Court/Coat/Cote of Arms, National Flag and Passport:-
# Post No. 81)The full list of Court of Arms of every age- means full knowledge or Time Cycle:-
# Post No. 82)How our flag should/would be?

# Post No. 83) Interesting Murli Points:-
# Post No. 84)When did ShivBaba enter BBaba?
# Post No. 85) Corpse of Shivbaba?
# Post No. 86)ShivBaba a purushaarthi (an effortmaker)?
# Post No. 87) Population change in the ladder picture:-
# Post No. 88:- How Education/Training is given?
# Post No. 89)God also takes tests:-
# Post No. 90)Gradual Changes:-

# Post No. 91)A Terrific Murli Point about Destruction:-
# Post No. 92)How the year 1976 got importance?
# Post No. 93)Mis interpretation of Brahma by Splinter group:-
# Post No- 94:-
# Post No. 94a)Why God is believed as omnipresent in bhaktimarg?
# Post No. 94b) Some more points which use the words Omnipresent, Haazir-naazir, Haajira-hajoor(in front or ever ready)-
# Post No. 95)At what age do Radha Krishna become Lakshmi and Narayan?
# Post No. 96) Praja_Patni (First lady):-
# Post No. 97) Another correction or alternative in Trimurti picture:-
# Post No. 98) Who is Shankar?
# Post No. 99)Who are the beginning- Braahmins or Deities?
# Post No. 100:-Regarding Pitaashri

# Post No. 101:-Rudr and Shiv
# Post No. 102:- Just an example, How errors can occur:-
# Post No. 103:- How braahmins/deities are formed/created?
# Post No. 104:- Both ShivBaba and the Chariot totally forgotten from all directions:-
# Post No. 105:- Is there need to understand every word/puzzle?
# Post No. 106) Purity and Divinity:-
# Post No. 107:- Shiv and Rudr- once again:-
# Post No. 108:- To more depths about Shiv, Saligram, Rudr and Malas:-
# Post No. 109:-Can Brahma be called as Deity/devta?
# Post No. 110:- Relation between Adi Dev and Adi Devi as well as Brahma and Saraswathi?:-

Post No. 111:- Counting begins from Sri Krishna:-
112)Two meanings of "Mamma- Baba":-
# Post No. 113)So- another excellent example -how mis understanding or mis interpretations can happen.
# Post No. 114)Regarding birth of Sri Krishna:-
# Post No. 115:- A murli cut:-
# Post No. 116:- BBaba's experience during his last minutes:-
# Post No. 117a) Why great difference between sakar and avyakt murlis? -
# Post No. 117b)Father goes/went to Retirement stage:-
# Post No. 117c) Through whom directions would be given after 1969?
# Post No. 118:- Who adopts us- ShivBaba or Bbaba?:-
# Post No. 119:- Will Bapdada come in some other chariot after Gulzar Dadi?
# Post No. 120:- Why lowkik people believe Brahma resides in subtle world?:-

# Post No. 121:- "I do not enter in subtle/complete Brahma":-
# Post No. 121b):- "I do not enter in King, Sage or Virgin":-
# Post No. 122:- Celebrate Jayanti of LN instead of just Krishna:-
# Post No. 123:- Do plants have soul?
# Post No. 124:- Is God father of all souls?
# Post No. 125:- Depth of the term "Father":-
# Post No. 126:- When is God "just father" and "Father & Mother(Maatpita)"?
# Post No. 128:-No one can get 100 marks in all the subjects:-

# Post No. 129:- Baba uses words in different ways:-
# 129a)Reincarnation:-
# 129b) Omnipresent:-
# 129c)Rejuvenate:-
# Post No. 130:- Some more Mysteries, but not important:-
# Post No. 131:- Prediction of Ghosts and Traitors:-
# Post No. 132:- PM(Pravruttimarg) and NM (NivruttiMarg):-
# Post No. 133)Few more murli points related to posts 130 and 131.
# Post No. 134)Regarding different Samvatsars:-
# Post No. 135:- Day and Night of Brahma/Braahmins:-

# Post No. 136:- Another mis-interpretation or mis-understanding:-
# Post No. 137:- "Sakar may niraakaar ko yaad karo" = In corporeal, (also) remember(add) the incorporeal:-
# Post No. 138:- Dharmaraj and The Highest Punishment:-
# Post No. 139:- Is there need to say Om Shanti?
# Post No. 140:- Does body also speak?(way of teaching of baba):-
# Post No. 143:- Positions of the chariot and the incharges:-
# Post No. 144:- How to give sakaash/energy to others:-
# Post No. 145) Godly Forms of Maya:-
# Post No. 146):- Sorrow can be described, but not happiness!

# Post No. 147:- Is Subtle World Resident Brahma not Prajapita?:-
# Post No. 148:- Two types of Mukhvamshavalis (Mouth born pro-genies):-
# Post No. 149):- Is God bound to speak truth (in limited/worldly way) ?
# Post No. 150) Can the initial period of BK yagya be called as Bhakti?
# Post No. 151) A cause for conflicts in BK family:-
# Post No. 152) Praise for Kings as ANNNA_DAATAA (One who gives food):-
# Post No. 153) What does it mean when Baba says "Saints remember Brahm"?

# Post No. 154) Something about previous(82nd) birth of Brahma Baba:-
# Post No. 154b) I enter into "Number One Impure Lustful THORN"
# Post No. 155) Some (children) do not know either to give respect or to follow srimath:-
# Post No. 156) Few avyakt murli points about prediction of year 1976:-
# Post No 157)Difficult to feel the depth of truth:-
# Post No. 158):-How to ask suggestions or questions to Shivbaba?
# Post No. 159) Directions regarding Money Service:-
# Post No. 160:- Every instant is/as last instant:-
# Post No. 161) Regarding Pandav. Kourav and Yadav:-
# Post No. 162) Vaishnav in every religion?

# Post No. 163) Too much is not necessary. Maintain balance:-
# Post No. 164:- Small difference between Clearing Karmic Account and Purification of Soul:-
# Post No. 165) Mount Abu will not exist in heaven:-
# Post No. 166) Repentance from an anti Om Mandli person:-
# Post No. 167) Form of service/functioning changes:-
# Post No. 168) Murli is like a Super Market:-
# Post No. 169) Entering of a Soul:-

# Post No. 170) A great point on Subtle world, Subtle/variety Service and Advance party:-
# Post No. 171) Good Nourishment in the END
# Post No. 172) Part of souls of Ram and Sita in Golden Age:-


Now, we know that in BK yagya, initially, there had been concept of “AHAM BRAHMAASMI” with the meaning “I am God, and everyone is God” and the title “Divine Father God PrajaPati Brahma” for B Baba and later it got changed into “PrajaPita Brahma” and the concept of Shiv came later. Even though there had been concept of belief that “Everyone is God”, there was a concept of Infinite Indivisible Light (Akhand Mahaa_Jyoti) which was considered to be Supreme God.

Later, when concept of Shiv and soul had been given. Even there, Shiv was first considered to be ling, then thumb, then star, then point.


1)Initial steps of god was giving visions and make a gathering and preparing them to give knowledge. If God ShivBaba gives vision of HIMSELF as point in the beginning itself, then people/children would not realize him. Hence for body conscious people, he gave vision of pure body Sri Krishna through Brahma (whenever they saw Brahma, the will get vision of Krishna), and trance where they used to see heaven, etc.

So- initially God might have thought that- let children think/assume Brahma as the Supreme (more on this will be said later).

Baba used the bhakti way to teach initially, since people had that belief. Sudden drift would be difficult, less efficient and also not right approach. So- Baba might have used the same belief of bhakti things.

In bhakti, it is/was believed that God is indivisible/infinite light(similar to brahm mahaa tatw). Hence initially, that belief had been given. And Prajapati Brahma as the creator- this is the belief in bhakti. So- Brahma Baba might hads been given the title “Divine Father Prajapati Brahma”.

The concept of belief of omnipresence of God is good if practiced properly. That is, if we believe everything is God, and give same respect to everything, then it will not cause any conflict.

Now, -the concept of "AHAM BRAHMAASMI, I AM GOD, EVERYONE IS GOD" is also similar. It is- giving highest respect to self as well as to all. Actually, there is a great benefit in this. One will not do sin (if he sticks rightly to this belief). There cannot be vice in him and he cannot indulge anything wrong relation with others, if he really considers the other as god and self as God. So- to put a stop to sins/vices and keep children pure to the extent possible, most beloved Shivbaba might have started so.

Initially Baba had said I am akhand jyoti (the unlimited, continuous or indivisible light), then I am ling, then thumb, then I am like star, then point. Even about the soul also- I think- first it was said as thumb, then star, then point.

The reason is- if initially itself Baba would have said- I am point, children would not have understood.

Like- in the lower class, students are taught- the smallest particle of matter is molecule. But later, they are told- molecule can be divided into atoms, then even an atom can be divided into proton, neutrons, and electrons. Still later at higher stages, concept of more subatomic particles are explained.

Initially, (for example -about earth) it would be taught as earth is like a ball(sphere). Later, it will be explained a- earth is not exactly like a ball, but is like an orange. Finally, to the real concept. So, even in lowkik or science, the method of teaching is from known to unknown.

I think- The initial 14 years bhatti was not real bhatti (remembrance). It was mainly purity, silence, etc. But of course, had good emotional training, as well as some practical training of sanskaar Milan (like how to adjust with others, and face the situations), etc. That had created a good foundation so that when they got real knowledge later, they were able to inculcate things easily and to the best possible extent.

SM 11-9-77(2):- Tumko is antim janm may hee tamopradhaan se satopradhaan ban_na hai. Yah hai ruhaani bhatti. VAH JO KARACHI MAY TUMHAARI BHATTI BANI VAH AUR BAATH THI. YAH YOGA KI BHATTI AUR HAI. YAH HAI YOGBAL KI BHATTI JISMEY KICHDAA NIKAL JAATAA HAI. Vahaan to tum apni bhatti may thay. Aur koyi se milnaa na hotaa thaa. Yah hai Yoga ki bhatti. Apne liye mehnat karni hoti hai. Atma samajhti hai aatmaa hi gyaan sunti hai organs dwara. -15

= In this last birth , you need to become satoprdahan/pure. This is spiritual bhatti. THE BHATTI THAT YOU HAD IN KARACHI WAS DIFFERENT. This bhatti of Yoga is different. In this bhatti of power of Yoga, the dirt will be cleared. There, you had been in bhatti of you people. There was no meeting with others. This is bhatti of Yoga. There is need to put effort for self. ...

SM 8-7-70(2):- Saath roz may sabhi kuch samjhaa jaa sakta hai. Parantu saath roz koyi de na sake. Buddhiyog kahaan na kahaan chalaa jaataa hai. Tum to bhatti may pade huye kiski shakal nahin dekhte thay. Koyi se baat nahin karte thay. Baahar bhi nikalte nahin thay. Tapasya ke liye saagar ke kanthey par jaaye baith_te thay Yaad may. Us samay yah chakr nahin samjhaayaa. Yah padhaayi nahin samajhte thay. Pahle2 to Baba se Yoga chaahiye. Baba ka parichay chaahiye. Phir peeche teacher chaahiye. Pahle Baap ke saath Yoga seekhnaa pade. Kyonki yah Baap to hai ashareeri. Doosraa to koyi maante hi nahin. Kahte hain Godfather omnipresent hai. Bas, sarvavyaapi kaa gyaan hee chalaa aataa hai.

= ....During those days in bhatti (in Karachi- i think), you were not seeing anyone's face. You were not talking to anyone. you are not going outside. To do tapasya, you used to go and sit around sea shore(saagar ke kanthay).That time, the (knowledge of) the wheel was not explained. This study was not understood/known. First, company of Baba is necessary. Introduction of Father is necessary. Then, later teacher is necessary. First, Yoga with Father should be learnt. Because Father is bodyless. Others do not believe (so). They believe God is omnipresent. The Knowledge of omnipresent has been in existence.
Last edited by mbbhat on Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:02 pm, edited 26 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK

So- Baba might have used the Bhaktimarg way to give knowledge.

So- initially- that may be the reason why Baba said- “I am Trimurti. Initially I create B, V, S in Subtle Region”. Because the belief of lowkik people is that- these three deities reside above physical world. Of course, they show the Three Worlds separate, Brahma in Brahmalok, Vishnu in Vaikunth, and Shankar at Kailas or somewhere. But their belief is that- all reside at above this earth. But, in BK picture, all the three are shown next to one another. The main reason could be to make the Bk children’s intellect centered. Else, if the three deities had been shown at different places, then the concentration of the children may become poor. Shivbaba had to take care of belief of lowkik bhaktimarg people as well as capacity of the children together, so it is a big task.

So- Baba might have given respect to the Bhaktimarg belief - so that Bhaktimarg people can get interest to listen to The Knowledge. And they will not become angry or upset much.

Now- to the concept of Subtle Region resident Brahma and the Prajapita Brahma.

In lowkik world, it is believed that Brahma created world sitting above (Subtle Region). They believe that God or Brahma created world from zero. They do not believe creation means transformation/purification.

But, BK philosophy says- the creation is eternal. There is no physical creation. Creation means just transformation and God needs a body in whom he can enter to give knowledge from which the Kaliyugi shudras can be converted into Confluence Aged braahmins who then can put effort.

But , in no scripture it is said- God enters in an impure human body or in any body. They believe God comes/incarnates in every yuga/age. According to bhakti people, incarnation does not mean entering in someone’s body, they just believe God can take any physical forms. They believe God takes form of even animals. So- this is a great task of proving for god that HE HAS COME IN AN IMPURE HUMAN BODY.

So- Baba might have taken these steps.

1)To prove that- There is no physical creation, he used the saying in bhatimarg (Hey Purifier, come and make us pure). It automatically proves that God's duty is to purify and hence not to create physically.

2)From 1), he can prove that he comes only in impure world and since he is bodyless, he needs a body to give knowledge and hence he needs impure body.

3)Since the creation role is given to Brahma in scriptures, and the transformation is the real creation, the person in whom he enters should be called as Brahma.

4)In lowkik, Brahma is also called as Prajapita. so- Baba uses that concept that- Prajapita = Father(Pita) of citizens (prajas) should be here, in this world, is it not? How can he (Prajapita Brahma) be in Subtle Region?

5)Of course, at that time (till 1969), there was no subtle Brahma in real. Baba could have denied that. But why he did not do so?

May be due to –

a)Not to hurt Bhaktimarg people's belief by directly saying that there is no Brahma other than Dada Lekhraj(B baba). And

b)Image of subtle Brahma is also necessary for BKs to become complete(it is goal, so goal would be placed initially itself) -- for B Baba to check till where he reached in his effort and also

c)To bring trance messages from Subtle Region (of course by vision or something like that). So- An Image Of Subtle Brahma had to be emerged At That Time Even If Subtle Brahma Did Not Exist Practically Till 1969.

d)Even to give vision of Brahma.

But Baba has clearly said - both the Brahmas are one and the same. The same vyakt (corporeal) will become Avyakt (subtle).

6)In lowkik world, it is believed that Daksh Prajapati existed in physical world. Regarding Prajapita, there is no clarity in scripture. But, lowkik people add the word Prajapita to the same Brahma what they believe in Subtle Region (beyond the earth). That may be the reason why the name of Brahma is kept as Prajapati in BKWSU initially and then changed as Prajapita.

Now, Baba may be trying to prove his incarnation from the word Prajapita that- when it is written Prajapita, he should be in the physical world, is it not? Because Praja (citizens) are here in physical world. So- Baba always stresses- I need an impure body, - why? Because people do not believe that God can come in impure body.
Last edited by mbbhat on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
# Post 03:- Use of Trimurti

In lowkik world (Hindu scriptures), it is not clear who is the Supreme. They believe creation role is to Brahma, sustenance to Vishnu, and destruction to Shiv (since they believe Shankar = Shiv). But, the word Trimurti [or Trimurti Shiv] is famous.

So Baba uses that word to prove that Shiv is creator of even B, V, S. Shiv is incorporeal, whereas B, V, S have subtle body. By the picture Trimurti, he can easily prove Shiv and Shankar are different and Shiv is incorporeal, the point.

Imp point is- even in Bhaktimarg, the word meaning of Shiv is incorporeal only. But they think of Shankar for Shiv. [The word Shiv has two meanings, one as niraakaar (incorporeal), the other as kalyaanakaari(benefactor)].

So- with the Trimurti Shiv concept Baba can prove that Shiv is supreme, Shiv and Shankar are different, and it is Shiv who does the role of transformation through Brahma.

Just Brahma is useless without Shiv's entrance in him.

Even though Shiv Jayanti festival is celebrated in India, people do not know when Shiv came, what did he do, etc, etc. So- Baba says in murli- write Trimurti Shiv Jayanti , not just Shiv Jayanti, because from the picture Trimurti, it can be proved that Shiv enters in Brahma and that is his real Jayanti (birth). Else just by saying Shiv Jayanti, neither the real Jayanti (birth = incarnation) of Shiv nor the role of Brahma/chariot can be explained.

In this way, Baba could slowly and slowly touch intellects of lowkik people with the examples from the scriptures. Also, it was a training for the children how even they can use the same technique to give gyaan to others.

But , Baba then also says that- in fact, I am not Trimurti. Because I come only in one body.

So- I think- Baba means here- Use Trimurti just as an instrument for service and it is not fact. See the following murli point.

SM 18-12-76(1):- Bachche tum Trimurti Shiv Jayanti akshar likhte ho. Parantu is samay 3 murtiyaan to hai nahin. Tum kahenge ShivBaba Brahma dwara srushti rachte to Brahma zaroor sakar may hona chahiye na. BAAKI VISHNU AUR SHANKAR IS SAMAY KAHAAN HAIN JO TUM TRIMURTI KAHTE HO? Yah bahut samajhne ki baatein hain. Trimurti ka arth hee hai BVS(Brahma Vishnu Shankar) hai. Trimurti BVS raaz ko tum hi jaante ho. Yah bhi jaante ho Brahma dwara sthaapna. VAH TO IS SAMAY HOTI. Vishnu dwara paalna Satyug may hogi. Vinash ka kaary anth may hota hai. Isliye (the word) Trimurti Shiv ki Jayanti NAHIN HONI CHAHIYE. TEENON KO (the bhaktimarg people have) LAGAA DEE HAI. Shiv ki Jayanti hai.

=Children, you write the word TRIMURTI SHIV JAYANTI. But now there are no three murtis. You say ShivBaba creates srushti through Brahma, so Brahma should definitely be in corporeal, is it not? Where are the rest Vishnu and Shankar at present that you SAY TRIMURTI? This is a matter to understand deeply/more. Trimurti means Brahma Vishnu Shankar. You only know the secret of Trimurti BVS. (You) also know creation through Brahma. That happens at present. Sustenance through Vishnu will happen in Satyug. Destruction will happen in the end. HENCE IT SHOULD NOT BE TRIMURTI SHIV JAYANTI. (They have ) mixed the three. [Because they show/believe creation, sustenance and destruction in every age, now and then, all the time, by Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. They believe all the three deities will be active from beginning of a kalpa till the end. They believe even for a new child to get birth, Brahma should first trigger. And- Vishnu sustains the world by taking so many avtaars.] (Actually it is just) Shiv Jayanti. But-Baba says- in fact, I need only one body and it is on Conf. Age.
Last edited by mbbhat on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
# Post 04)Why does Baba mention Gita now and then in Murli?

Because due to insertion of name Krishna in Gita, both the Supreme Father God is forgotten and his incarnation also cannot be proved:-

There are two Gitas- one yaadgaar (lowkik= written in sanscrit which contains 700 slokas), the other is real one (Murli).

Baba says, “Gita is Mother and Father of all scriptures”. Is it for lowkik Gita or real Gita? Now, the religious fathers did not take any help from lowkik Gita to preach their teachings. The followers later prepared the respective scriptures which contains teachings of the religious fathers. In this view, lowkik Gita cannot be called as Mother and father of all the scriptures.

It is from Murli (real Gita= real versions of God), even the other scriptures take birth. That is, in the end of a kalpa, the souls of religious fathers will get knowledge/inspirations from the BK souls who have practiced murli teachings which they will teach/preach from Copper Age onwards in the next Kalpa.
Krishna was present in Satyug, hence did not teach anything.
When it would be proved that Shiv is God of Gita, then only all the religions will recognize One god and realize practically that- Shiv = Allah= God = Jehova.... and Bharat/India would be the highest place of pilgrimage for all the religions/souls.
Even in Bhaktimarg, Gita is believed to be mother of all scriptures as "SARVA_SHAASTRA_MAYI SHIRO_MANI SRIMAD_BHAGAVADGITA"

sarva = all, shastra = scripture mayi= mother, shiro= head= top, mani =jewel srimat/d = srimath

The concept of bhagavaanuvach (God's words) in present only in Gita and no other scripture. And- if we see, even the teachings in lowkik Gita is much higher than the scriptures of other religions. It gives highest value to physical purity as well as says to sacrifice all vices fully. The teachings of Gita is beyond the gender and religions. There are no words like Hindu, Muslim, Christian, etc. In this way, it may not be wrong to call even lowkik Gita as mother of all the scriptures.

A point to be noted:- It is even written in Gita that Vedas are just like wells and Gita is like ocean. But- Hindus cannot explain how Gita is superior to Vedas. Because the introduction of most beloved Supreme father has got into darkness when name of Krishna is put there.

So- Baba may be linking all these together- Trimurti Shiv Jayanti, Gita Jayanti, and then Krishna Jayanti. (because it is from Gita knowledge only Krishna takes birth in heaven)

Aim of Baba in most of the Murli points are - mainly

1)to prove his incarnation, and then
2)to explain how he is incarnated and then
3)what benefit is there from those or how world is purified from impure into pure.

1) and 2) means father(alaf) and 3) means property(Bey).

Baba takes different examples of Bhaktimarg sayings and beliefs - to explain Knowledge easily.
Last edited by mbbhat on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
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# Post No. 05)Teaching using bhakti words- “Tum maatpitaa hum baalak terey, tumhen paakey milaa sukh ghanerey = You are our Father and mother. Through you, we got unlimited happiness”

Aim of Shiv here is to explain Shiv’s incarnation. When we say God as just Father, people get confused, because there is no feeling of incarnation of god to physical world, so no knowledge of HIM. Because just Father implies god is above only. But, when it is said maatpitaa (mother and Father), it proves he comes here to create/transform. God is creator/transformer/purifier. But- how he plays that role, no one knows. This is needed to be known.

SM 13-10-83(1):- Kahte bhi hain niraakaar ShivBaba. Brahma ko bhi Baba kahthe hain. Vishnu ko Baba nahin. Shankar ko bhi Baba nahin kahenge. Shiv ko humeshaa Baba kahte hain. Shiv KA CHITR ALAG, Shankar KA CHITR ALAG. Gaate bhi hain shivaaya namaha. Phir kahaa jaataa hai tum maatpitaa. YAH BHI SAMAJHNAA BAHUT SAHAJ HAI KI BAROBAR NIRAAKAAR Shiv KO HEE BAAP KAHTE HAIN. VAH HAI SABHEE AATMAAVON KA BAAP. Shankar va Vishnu niraakaar toh nahin hai. Shiv ko niraakaar kahenge. Un sabkey chitr hain. Mandiron may, Bhaktimarg may kitney chitr hain. Oonch te oonch chitr dikhaate hain ShivBaba kaa. Phir BVS kaa dikhaate hain. Unkaa bhi roop hai. Jagadamba, Jagatpita ka bhi roop hai. LN ka bhi sakari roop hai. Baaki ek hi bhagavaan hai niraakaar. Parantu unko sirf God kahney se manushy moonjhte hain. POOCHO- GOD TUMHAARAA KYAA LAGTAA HAI? KAHENGE Father. TOH YAH SIDDH KAR BATLAANAA HAI GOD Father HAI. Father RACHTAA HAI. TOH MOTHER BHI CHAHIYE. MOTHER BIGAR Father KAISE SRUSHTI RACHENGE? VAH Father KAB AAYENGE? SAB BULAATE HAIN HEY- PATITON KO PAAVAN BANAANEVAALEY, AAVO. ABHI TOH SAARI DUNIYAA PATIT HAI. PATIT HO, TAB TOH AAKAR PAVAN BANAAYENGE NA. IS_SEY SIDDH HOTA HAI BAAP KO AANAA ZAROOR HAI. Samajhte bhi hain, vah Father hai. Parantu drama anusaar vah koyi ko samajhney kaa hai nahin. Na samjhe, tab toh Baap aakar samjhaavenge. ......Manushyon may agyaan hai. Parampita, Oh God Father akshar kah_kar agar usko na jaaney, toh un jaisaa agyaan koyi nahin. -14 [maatpita, Trimurti, service, ShivBaba] - vimp

= It is said Incorporeal ShivBaba. Baba is also said to Brahma, but not to Vishnu or Shankar. To Shiv, it is always said as Baba. Picture of Shiv and Shankar are different. They say shivaaya namaha (= salutes to Shiv). Then it is said, You are Mother and Father. It is very easy to understand that the word Father is said to the incorporeal Shiv. He is Father of all souls. Shankr or Vishnu are not incorporeal. There is picture to them. In temples many pictures are kept. The highest picture shown is of ShivBaba. Then they show those of B, V, S. They also have form. There is form of even Jagatpita and Jagadamba. Even LN have Sakar forms. But the only one God is incorporeal. But when he is called as just "God", people get confused. Ask (them)- what is god to you? They say- Father. So- it should be explained that God is Father. (Now) Father is creator. So- there is need of mother. Without mother, how can Father create creation? (Now) when that Father will come? All call him as Oh- purifier, come. Now, the whole world is impure. When it is impure, then the Father will come and purify, is it not? THIS PROVES THAT- GOD HAS TO COME. They also understand he is Father. But according to drama, they do not realize…... They say- Parampita (supreme Father), God Father, etc, but do not know him. Nothing is as ignorance to this.

So- to Indians, it is easy to explain incarnation of god, since there is already word maatpitaa.

But foreigners, who believe just as Father, it is relatively difficult. Then we should use the creation and purification concept, which proves that he has to descend to the impure world.

So- who all are maatpitas (mother and fathers) and how?
Last edited by mbbhat on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 06 - Regarding maatpita (mother and father):-

I think-

1)Shiv is incorporeal/paarlowkik Maatpita. Because he is the one who gives us everything and maintains all the relations ( sarvasambandhi) mentally and practically. He is the only real creator.

Here- Shiv is both incorporeal father and mother.

2) But, God plays role of creator(maatpita) only when he incarnates(enters a body). So, till the incarnation, Shivbaba is just father and as soon as he enters human chariot, the chariot(B Baba) becomes corporeal Mother. So, in the physical role of Shivbaba (while giving gyaan, drushti, etc), Shiv is incorporeal Father and Brahma is corporeal mother.

3)Brahma gets the title of (corporeal) father since he is the number one human soul. So, Brahma is both corporeal father and mother.

4)But, B Baba being male (and also chariot), cannot give godly message to others as he cannot speak directly “God comes in me”. That would look egoistic. That is why the vessel of knowledge is given to sisters/mothers and Mamma is given the head of the yagya for service (and also for giving extra clarifications to other children about the knowledge). Also, baba has said, mothers are to be kept ahead. So, practical title of Corporeal World Mother(Jagadamba) goes to Mamma.

So- in this point of view, - Brahma is corporeal Father and Mama is corporeal mother.

5)So- Brahma is both father and mother, but Mamma is never father, she is only mother. Baba usually says- the Big/senior mother is B Baba who is mother of even Mamma (Om Radhe).

6)When Baba says- “MAATPITAA IS/ARE COMBINED”. It has three meanings.

a)Just Shiv alone as both incorporeal Father and Mother.
b)Shiv in body of Brahma = Shiv is incorporeal Father and Brahma the incorporeal mother. (Both the souls in one body)
c)Just Brahma is both corporeal Father and corporeal Mother.

7)Sometimes Baba also says- “MAATPITA IS SAID JUST TO ONE”. Then - it is just for either a)ShivBaba or c)Brahma Baba.

Many times Baba says in murli- you ask them (devotees)- Who are Jagat pita (World Father) and Jagat mata (World mother)? what is your relation with them?, What is your relation with God? Why do you celebrate Shivratri, etc, etc.

Because the purpose is just one- proving incarnation of God Father. And when any one of these personalities is understood, God father's introduction will be understood. Because they are inter related. And people worship them. Since people worship them, it opens a door to ask questions to them and then to explain.

Sometimes Baba says- God/Shiv/ShivBaba is just father as if HE is not mother. Sometimes says- God is both father and mother. When Baba speaks the former, he is interested in proving his incarnation. When he speaks about latter, he is interested in highlighting his importance and practical role of giving property to children and transformation/purification.

So, ShivBaba at Paramdham is just Father(Highest soul) and during Conf. Age is both father and mother.
Related murli points:-

8)Mother and father is said just to One Shiv.

SM 13-6-78(3):- PARAMPITA KI TOH BAHUT BHAARI MAHIMAA HAI. TUM MAATPITAA…. TOH MAATPITAA PHIR SARVAVYAAPI VAA BE ANTH KAISE HO SAKTAA. Bharatavaasi dharm bhrasth aur daivi pavitr karm bhrashth ho gaye hain. -96- [maatpitaa]

= There is great praise for the Supreme Soul as You are Mother and father(Maatpita). So, how can maatpita be omnipresent?

9)SM 1-9-78(1):- Geeth- tumhi ho maataapitaa…. Om shanti. Bachchon ne geeth sunaa. Aksar karke bhaktimaargvaaley mandiron may jaate hain. jo bhi devataayein hain, chaahe Shiv ke paas jaavenge, chaahe LN ke mandir may jaayenge, chaahe RK ke mandir may jaavenge, sabkey aage yahi mahimaa karenge TWAMEVA MAATAASHCHA PITAA…. PHIR KAHTE HAIN TWAMEVA VIDYAA DRAVINAM. YAANI TUM MAATPITAA BHI HO, PADHAANEVAALEY BHI HO. Vaastav may LN ko, vaa Ram Sita ko twameva maataa pitaa nahin kahenge. Kyonki unhon ko toh apney bachche honge. Vah aisee mahimaa nahin gaavenge. ASUL MAY MAHIMAA EK SHIVBABA KI HAI. VAH MAHIMAA GAATE HAIN DEV2 MAHAADEV. YAANI TUM BVS SE BHI OONCH HO. Bhaktimarg may arth toh koyi samajh na sakey. Devataavon ke aage yah jhooth bolthay hain. Ab Baap kahte hain tumney bahut bhakti ki hai. Ab merey se samjho aur is par gowr karo- sach kyaa hai, jhoot kyaa hai. Tum bachche ab samajhte ho Baap ke baarey may aur devtaavon ke baarey may. Manushy jo bhi mahimaa gaate hain vah saari wrong hain. Abhi main jo tum bachchon ko samjhaataa hun, vahi right hai. -97 [maatpitaa, BVS] imp

=Song- “You are Maatpita…..” Om Shanti. Children heard the song. Usually people of bhaktimarg sing this in temples. They sing this praise/song in front of all deities, Shiv, LN, or RK. (In the song), after You are mother and father, it is said- “TWAMEVA VIDYAA DRAVINAM” means, you are mother and father as well as teacher. In fact, “You are mother and father”- this cannot be said to LN or RS(ram-Sita). Because they have their own children. Their children will not praise their parents like this. ACTUALLY, THIS PRAISE IS FOR ONE SHIVBABA. They also say- Dev2 Mahadev, means YOU ARE HIGHER THAN EVEN BVS. In bhaktimarg, people do not understand the meaning………….

10) SM 22-10-82(2):- Om namaha Shivaaye kaa geeth bahut achchaa hai. Shiv HAI MAATPITAA. BVS ko Maatpita nahin kahenge. Shiv ko hee Father kahenge. Adam, Eve Brahma Saraswati to yahaan hee huye hain. ....-22

= ... Shiv is maatpita. Even BVS cannot be called as Maatpita.…..

11)SM 13-6-78(1):- Geeth:- OM NAMAHA SHIVAAYA. OM SHANTI. BACHCHON NE GEETH SUNAA. YAH MAHIMAA KISKI THI. TUM MAATPITAA ARTHAATH PARAM PITAA PARMAATMAA KI MAHIMAA. Kyonki oonch te oonch bhagavaan vahi hai. Oonch te oonch God father. Ishwar ko father kahaa jaataa hai. Kiskaa father? Saare manushy srushti kaa father. -95- [maatpitaa]

= Song- Om namaha shivaaya= (Salutés to Shiv). Whose praise is this? You are maatpitaa(Mother and father) is the praise of Supreme Father and Soul. ….

12)ShivBaba is highlighting his incarnation here.

SM 16-6-82(1):- Yah sab brahmakumaar kumaariyaan kiski math par chaltey hain? Srimath par. BRAHMA KI MATH GAAYI HUYI NAHIN HAI. Yoon guru to sabhi ko kah saktey hain. Guru brahma guru Vishnu bhi kahte hain. Parantu guru ko phir bhagavaan nahin kaha jata, unhon ko devtaa kahaa jaataa. Maatpita bhi unko kah nahin saktey. Baba ne samjhaya hai lowkik maatpita se toh alp kaal ka sukh ka varsaa milta hai. Vah miltey bhi phir paarlowkik maatpita ko yaad karte hain. BVS ko to nahin yaad karenge. Unko maatpita nahin kahenge. Ve to sookshmvatanvaasi hai na. Unko Brahma devtaa namaha, Vishnu devtaa nahmaha kahte hain. ITNEY SAB BACHCHE KISKO MAATPITA KAH NA SAKE. Swarg may LN ko bhi sab maatpita kah nahin saktey. YAH PAARLOWKIK MAATPITA KE LIYE GAATE HAIN TUM MAATPITA HUM BAALAKA TEREY.. Bahut karke aashirvaad, krupaa bahut maangtey hain. Abhi tum bachche jaante ho behad ka Baap kaise aashirvaad athvaa krupaa karte hain. Aise to nahin kahte hain aayushmaan bhav, chiranjeevi bhav. Baba to aakar sahaj rajayog aur gyaan ka shikshaa dete hain. Aashirvaad va krupaa bhaktimarg may dher dete hain ek do ko. Achchi drushti rakhnaa, daya drushti rakhnaa. So to paramatma ke sivaaye koyi rakh na sake. Aise nahin koyi dekhne se devtaa ban jaate hain. Nahin. YAH TO PATHSHAALAA HAI. PAATHSHALA MAY PADHNAA HOTA HAi. Gita paathshaalaa hai na. Shaastron ko kab nahin kahenge ki tum maatpitaa hum baalak terey…. Yah mahimaa shaastron ki nahin hai. GITA KO BHI NAHIN KAHENGE. YAH MAHIMA HAI HE EEK BAAP KI. SO BHI JAB BAAP MANUSHY TAN MAY AAKAR APNAA PARICHAY DETE HAIN TAB TUM KAHTE HO. ABHI TUM JAANTE HO HUM NIRAAKAAR KO GATE THAY. VAHI NIRAAKAAR IS SAKAR TAN MAY AAYE HAIN. Mamma, Baba, daadaa yah kutumb huvaa na. Ishwariy parivaar. Itni badi paathshaalaa thodi shahar se door honi chahiye. Yahaan yah dekho shahar se kitnaa door hai. Sannaataa laga huva hai. Kyonki humey chaahiye hee shanti. -64- [cp, maatpita, srimath, pmarg]

= Whose directions do all these Bks follow? On SRIMATH. There is no praise as DIRECTIONS OF BRAHMA. Of course, Guru is said for many. (People in lowkik) even say- Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu. But, even Guru cannot be called as GOD. They (BVS) are called as deities. The praise Maatpita cannot be said even for them. Baba has explained from lowkik Maatpita, limited property is received. Even while having that/lowkik property, people still think of Paarlowkik (unlimited) Maatpita, not of BVS. They (BVS) cannot be called as maatpita. They are subtle world residents. They are praised as deity Brahma, deity Vishnu. ALL THESE CHILDREN CANNOT SAY MAATPITA TO ANYONE (HUMAN OR DEITY). Even in heaven, all will not say Maatpita to L&N. The paarlowkik maatpita only is praised as “YOU ARE MOTHER AND FATHER, WE ARE YOUR CHILDREN…”. Many beg blessings, mercy, etc from HIM. Now, you know how the unlimited father gives blessings, or mercy. He does not say- let your age increase, or become immortal, etc. Baba comes and gives teachings of easy Rajayoga and knowledge. Many types of blessings, mercy are given in bhaktimarg, like-have good drushti(vision), have vision of pity, etc. (Actually), except God, no one can have such a great vision. It is not that just by seeing, one becomes deity. This is school. In a school, study is done. There are Gita paathashaalaas(schools), is it not? The scriptures are not praised as You are Mother and father, we are your children… THIS PRAISE IS NOT FOR EVEN THE SCRIPTURES. EVEN NOT TO GITA. THIS PRAISE OF THE ONE FATHER. THAT TOO, WHEN THE FATHER COMES IN A HUMAN BODY AND GIVES HIS INTRODUCTION, YOU SAY (EXPERIENCE) IT. Now, you know that you used to praise this to the incorporeal (during path of bhakti). That incorporeal now has come in this corporeal. Mother, Father and Grandfather. So it became family, is it not? Godly family. Such a big school should be a little away from city.

13) SM 19-10-72(1):- Yah baatein koyi manushy ki buddhi may nahin aati. Aise nahin ki vah LN ke mandir may jaavenge to unki buddhi may koyi yah aavegaa ki yah koun hain? Nahin. Vah to Bhaktimarg hai. Sirf jaakar haath jod dete hain aur kahte rahte hain TWAMEVA MAATAASHCHA PITA…. Shiv to sabhi se badaa thah_raa na. ShivBaba HAI TO AUR KOYI KO MAATPITA KAH NA SAKE. Baba bhaagvaan bhi hai.

= They (devotees) just hold their hands and pray- you are mother and father... Shiv is greater than all, is it not? When there is Shiv(= we speak about Shiv), no one else can be called as maatpita.....

14a)SM 13-6-78(1):- Geeth:- OM NAMAHA SHIVAAYA. OM SHANTI. BACHCHON NE GEETH SUNAA. YAH MAHIMAA KISKI THI. TUM MAATPITAA ARTHAATH PARAM PITAA PARMAATMAA KI MAHIMAA. Kyonki oonch te oonch bhagavaan vahi hai. Oonch te oonch God father. Ishwar ko father kahaa jaataa hai. Kiskaa father? Saare manushy srushti kaa father. -95- [maatpitaa]

= Song- Om namaha shivaaya= (Salutés to Shiv). Whose praise is this? You are maatpitaa(Mother and father) means the praise of Supreme Father and Soul. ….

14b)SM 14-11-78(1):- Geeth:- tumhi ho maataa….. Om shanti. SIRF MAAT PITAAVAALAA GEET SUN_NEY SE NAAM SIDDH NAHIN HOTA HAI. PAHLEY SHIVAAYA NAMAHA GEETH SUNAAKAR PHIR MAAT PITAAVAALAA SUNAANE SE KNOWLEDGE KA PATAA PADTAA HAI. Manushy toh mandiron may jate hain, LN ke mandir may jaayenge, Krishn ke mandir may jaayenge. Sabkey aage tum maatpitaa …… kah dete hain bigar arth. PAHLEY SHIVAAYA NAMAHA GEETH SUNAAKAR PHIR MAATPITAAVAALAA SUNAANAA CHAAHIYE. -63 [maatpita]

=Song- you are mother, you are father….. Om shanti. Just by the song of maatpitaa, the name does not become clear. First the song Shivaaya namaha should be put, then that of MAATPITAA. By this, knowledge can be understood better.
Last edited by mbbhat on Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:45 pm, edited 10 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
# Post 07:- Continuation:-

15) Brahma as both (corporeal) Father and Mother:-

SM 11-12-76(1):- Jaise tum aatmaayein yahaan aakar part bajaati ho, gruhsathi banti ho, vaise mujhe bhi aakar gruhasthi ban_naa padtaa hai. Sirf Sangamyug par ek hi baar aataa hun aur aakar gruhasthi bantaa hun. Yahaan sammukh tum MUJHE maatpitaa kahte ho. Bhal aage bhi tum mujhe pukaarthay thay- Tum maatpitaa….. parantu us samay main gruhasthi nahin thaa. Is samay aakar gruhasthi banaa hun. Grushasthi bhi 2-4 bachchon kaa nahin. Dher ke dher bachche hote jaate hain. ….. Abhi toh tum samajhte ho sukh toh humko satyug may milenge. Vah sukh praapt karne liye hum Maatpita ke baney hain. ZAROOR KOYI SAMAY GRUHASTHI HAIN JIS KAARAN UNKO TUM MAATPITAA KAHAA JAATAA HAI. Gaate toh hain parantu samajhte nahin. Abhi tum samajhte ho BEHAD KAA BAAP HAI TOH MAA BHI hai. IS MAA DWAARAA ARTHAATH PRAJAPITA BRAHMA DWAARAA ADOPT KIYAA HAI. Ab Prajapita donon (=BEHAD KAA BAAP and MAA) Baap thah_rey na. Pita dwaraa adopt kaise karenge. Baap toh maataa dwaara adopt karenge na. Ab TWAMEVA MAATAASHCHA PITAA… yah unko kahe yaa Brahma ko kahe? Gaate toh hain hum sabhi brothers hain, vo father hai. Usmay toh maataa kaa prashn nahin. Gaayaa jaataa hai tum maatpitaa…. Ab maataa pitaa (= Maatpitaa) kaise bante hain, yah wonderful baatein hain na samajhne ki. Manushy moonjhte bhi honge. YAH SHARIR MALE KAA HONEY KAARAN MAATAA ADOPT KI GAYI. Vo hai Saraswati beti. Parantu beti dwaaraa toh adopt nahin kiyaa jaataa hai. YAH MAATAA BHI HAI TOH PITAA BHI HAI. Usnay ismay pravesh kiyaa hai, tab BRAHMA KO KHUD KAHTE HAIN TUM HUMAARAA BACHCHAA BHI HO, VANNI BHI HO. BAROBAR BAAP IN DWAARAA ADOPT KARTE HAIN TOH YAH MAATAA BHI HO JAATI HAI. -57- [maatpita, Prajapita, adoption]

= Like you souls come here and play your roles, become gruhasthis(house hold) I too have to become gruhasthi. Just once in Conf. Age, I become gruhasthi. Here, in front, you say Maatpita to me. Of course, you used to say so even before (in bhaktimarg). But, I was not gruhasthi(incarnated) at that time. Now, I have become gruhasthi. That too, not of 2 tto 4 children. Lots of children are there. …Now, you know, you will get happiness in Golden Age. To get that happiness, you have become (children) of Maatpita. Definitely, at some point of time, God had become gruhasthi, that is why HE is praised (in bhakti) as Maatpita. [Baba is stressing about his incarnation]. They praise, but do not know. Now, you know there is unlimited father as well as mother. {Shivbaba is unlimited/first father and B baba is the unlimited/first mother) Through this mother, means through Prajapita Brahma. (you) have been adopted. Now, both the Prajapitas (Shivbaba and Prajapita Brahma) are father (Shiv is father and Brahma is male), is it not? How adoption can be done through a father? Father adopts through mother, is it not? Now, should “you are mother and father”, is to be said to him(Shiv) or Brahma? People praise- “We all are brothers, HE is father”. In this the question of mother does not arise. (But) It is praised, "You are maatpita", Now, how (he) becomes maatpita, these are wonderful matters to understand, is it not? People may be confused. This body is male, hence (second/choti/smaller) mother is adopted. She is Saraswati. (But she is actually daughter). But, through daughter, adoption cannot be done. (HENCE, IN FACT) THIS(BRAHMA) IS MOTHER AS WELL AS FATHER. HE entered in this. Then/hence (He) says to Brahma that- You are my child/son as well as wife. Father adopts through this. THEREFORE THIS BECOMES EVEN MOTHER.

16)SM 21-1-78(2):- Yah bahut guhy baat hai. Ek ko hi maatpita kaha jata hai. YAH BRAHMA BAAP BHI HAI TO BADI MAA BHI HAI.

=This is very deep matter. You are mother and father is said to One. THIS BRAHMA IS BOTH FATHER AND BIG MOTHER.

17)SM 5-1-78(1):- Geeth:- Tumhi ho maataa, ….Om Shanti. Jisko maatpita kahte ho toh zaroor pharmaan pita hi karenge. Yah to maatpita combined hai. Yah baath manushyon ke liye samajhna badaa difficult hai. Aur yahi mukhy baath hai samajhne ki. Nirakar Parampita Paramatma jisko pita kaha jata hai usko maataa bhi kahte. Yah wonderful baath hai. Parampita Paramatma manushy srushti rachenge toh maataa ZAROOR CHAAHIYE. Yah baat badi guhy hai…. Parampita Paramatma rachta to ek hai jiske hum bachche hain. Vah bhi nirakar hai. Hum aatmayein bhi nirakar hain. Parantu Nirakar phir srushti kaise rachte hain? Maata bigar toh srushti rachi nahin jaa sakti. Wonder hai srushti rachne ka. Ek toh paramatma rachaita hai. Purani duniya may aakar nayi duniya rachte hain. Yah badi guhy baath hai. Jo nirakar ko hum maatpita kahte hain. Baap khud samjhaate hain main bachchon ko kaise adopt karta hun. Pet se bachche nikalne ki baath hi nahin. Itnay dher bachche pet se kaise niklenge? To kahte hain main is sharir ko dharan kar phir unke mukh dwara bachche adopt karta hun. YAH(BRAHMA) PITA BHI HAI MANUSHY SRUSHTI RACHNEVAALAA AUR MAATAA BHI HAI JISKE MUKH SE BACHCHE ADOPT KARTA HUN. Is reeti bachchon ko adopt karna yah Baap ka kaam hai. Sanyasi toh kar na sake. Unhon ke hain jigyaasi followers. Yahaan to huyi rachna ki baat. To Baba inmay pravesh karte hain. Yah hai mukhvamshavali jo kahte hain tum maatpita… To Mata yah siddh huyi. Baap ismay pravesh ho rachte hain. TOH YAH BOODHAA PRAJAPITA BHI THAHRAA PHIR MAATAA BHI BOODHI THAHRI. BOODHE HI CHAHIYE NA. Ab bachchon ko maatpita ko yaad karna pade. Inki to property hai nahin. Tum bante ho vaaris. Isliye inko BapDada kahte ho. TUMKO PRAJAPITA BRAHMA SE PROPERTY NAHIN LENI HAI. YAH DADA BHI UNSAY LETE HAIN. Inko Dada bhi toh maataa bhi kaha jata hai. Nahin to maatpita kaise siddh ho? Maatpita bachche kaise ho yah badi guhy samajhne aur simiran karne ki baat hai. Baba aap pita ho. Is maataa dwara humney janm liya hai. Barobar varsa bhi yaad aataa hai. Yaad us baap ko karna hai. Gyan se tum samajhte bhi ho ki kaise Baap patit duniya may aate hain. Kahte hain MAIN JISMAY PRAVESH KARTA HUN YAH HUMARA BACHCHA BHI HAI, TUMAARAA BAAP BHI HAI, AUR PHIR MAATAA BHI HAI. TUM HO GAYE BACHCHE. Toh baap ko yaad karne se varsa milta hai. MAATAA KO YAAD KARNE SE VARSA NAHIN MILEGA. NIRANTAR US BAAP KO YAAD KARNA HAI. Baaki is sharir ko bhoolna hai.

= ..............This is Father who creates human world as well as mother through whose mouth I adopt children. ......So, this old man is father as well as the mother too is old (the same person). ...... Father says- in whom I enter, he is my child, your father as well as mother.

18)The two maatpitas- One at far (ShivBaba) and the other at near (BBaba or B Baba and Mamma):-

SM 11-4-78(1):- Geet- door ke musaafir humko bhi saath le chal. ... Om Shanti. Yah record to sab sun rahe hain. Door ke musaafir humko bhi saath le chal. YAH TUM BACHCHE HEE JAANTE HO AUR VAASTAV MAY 24 GHANTAA YAH Yaad ZAROOR RAHNI CHAHIYE. BACHCHE MAATPITAA KO HUMESHAA 24 GHANTE HEE Yaad KARTE HAIN. Achchaa. Hai hee unkey bachche. Maatpita se varsaa lenge.Tum JAANTE HO HUMAARAA MAATPITAA VAH HAI DOOR KE RAHNEVAALAA. YAH MAATPITAA NAZDEEK KE RAHNEVAALE HAIN. Sab manushy us door ke musaafir ko Yaad karte hain. -88-

= ... You know our maatpita is that one who resides far. This/these maatpita/s reside/s near. All remember the one who is far.

19)There is need of Corporeal Mother and fathers:-

SM 8-10-77(1):- Parmatma bhi padhaane ke liye jivatma bante hain aur inmey pravesh kar inko aur Brahma mukhvamshavali ko padhate hain. SWAYAM Brahma KO MUKHVAMSHAVALI NAHIN KAHENGE. Braahman Brahma mukhvamshavali hai. Brahma Shiv ki mukhvamshavali nahin hai. ShivBaba to aakar inmey pravesh karte hain, apnaa banaate hain. Yah bhi creation hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Vishnu ko nahin rachte. Gaayaa bhi jata hai Brahma Vishnu aur Shankar. Vishnu Shankar aur Brahma nahin gaayaa jaataa hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Brahma ka occupation hee alag hai. Harek baath samajhney ki hai. INKO TWAMEVA MAATAA PITAA TWAMEVA KAHA JATA HAI. Toh vah niraakaar hai na. Toh Sakar may maatpitaa chahiye. Tab to poochte hain Mama ko Maa hai? Kahenge haan. Brahma Mama ki bhi Maa hai. Brahma ke koyi Maa nahin. YAH Maa FEMALE NA HONEY KAARAN MAATAA ROOP MAY Mama CHAHIYE. To Brahma ki putri Saraswati hai. Brahma KHUD Maa HOTE HUYE BHI Saraswati KO Mama KAHTE HAIN.

= ............ The occupation of Brahma is different/unique. Each matter is to be understood. You are Mother and father is said to this. That is incorporeal. [b]So- there is need of maatpitas in corporeal (as well). [/b] When it is asked, does Mamma has mother? Yes, she has. Brahma is mother of even Mamma. Brahma has no (corporeal) mother. [b]Since this mother(Brahma Baba) is not (physically) female, there is need of Mama as mother in female form. So- there is daughter of Brahma, Saraswati. Even though Brahma is mother, he calls Mama as mother.[/b]

20)Brahma as corporeal father and mamma as corporeal mother:-

SM 22-10-82(2):- Thodi beemaari hoti hai toh mar padtey hain. Arey- yog may rahe toh dard bhi kum ho jaayegaa. Yog nahin to beemaari kaise chootey? KHYAAL KARNAA CHAAHIYE MAATPITAA JO PAAVAN BANTEY HAIN VAHI PHIR SABSEY PAHLEY PATIT BHI BANTE HAIN. UNKO BAHUT BHOGNAA BHOGNI PADTI HAI. PARANTU YOG MAY RAHNEY KAARAN BEEMAARI HATH JAATI HAI. NAHIN TOH UNKI BHOGNAA SABSEY JAASTI HAI. PARANTU YOGBAL SE DUKH DOOR HOTE HAIN AUR BAHUT KHUSHI MAY RAHTEY HAIN. Baba se hum swarg ke sukh ghanerey lete hain. Bahut bachche hain jo beemaari may ekdum moorchit ho jaate hain. Surjith nahin hote toh samajhte hain yah deh abhimaan may lat_ke huye hain. Apney ko atma samajhte nahin. Saaraa dinn deh may dhyaan hai. JAISE MAREY PADEY HAIN. BABA AAKAR KABR SE UTHAAYE GYAAN KI TIKLOO2 KARTE HAIN. – 56 [WOT, dharnaa, maatpita]

= .....Mother and Father who become pure, they also first become impure.........

21)SM 11-4-78(3):- Ab jitnaa purushaarth karenge utnaa oonch pad paavenge. Jaise bachche jaante hain ki MAATPITA JAGADAMBA JAGATPITA aakar pahley2 Maharaja Maharani bante hain. Abhi to ve bhi padh rahe hain. Padhaanevaalaa shivbaba hai.

= .... Mother and father Jagadamba and jagatpita become first emperor and empress. They are now studying. ......


SM 9-2-83(1)):- YAH TOH BACHCHE SAMAJH GAYE HAIN KI BEHAD KE BHI DO BAAP HAIN. TOH MAA BHI ZAROOR DO HONGI. EK JAGADAMBA, DOOSRI YAH BRAHMA BHI MAATA THAH_RI NA. Donon baith samjhaate hain. Toh tumko jaise double engine mil gayi hai. -55 [Maatpita]

= Children have understood that there are two unlimited fathers. So, even there would be two mothers as well. One is Jagadamba, the other is this Brahma too mother, is it not. Both sit and explain. It is like you have got double engines.

[So, I believe, Shivbaba and Brahma are unlimited fathers, and Brahma and mamma are unlimited mothers].

[Now, a question arises- Is not Shivbaba too unlimited Mother? Then unlimited mothers will become three. But, I believe Shivbaba plays role of just father or maatpita(both father and mother together) . He never plays role of just mother. Brahma Baba's role can be explained separately as just father as well as just Mother. When compared to human souls. his own role is like father, leader or guide, etc, so is father there. But when he is combined with God as a hand/instrument of God to give knowledge, or to adopt children, he is mother.

Mamma's role is just mother. But, Shivbaba's role as just mother cannot be explained. God can never become just MOTHER, and logically it is right. If God plays role of just mother, there would be another father (above him too), is it not.

Also, usually when Baba says about double engines, he speaks about himself and B Baba. But, here, it seems Baba is pointing to the two HIGHEST corporeal personalities as the engines. So, it depends on the context here.

SM 8-10-77(1):- Parmatma bhi padhaane ke liye jivatma bante hain aur inmey pravesh kar inko aur Brahma mukhvamshavali ko padhate hain. SWAYAM BRAHMA KO MUKHVAMSHAVALI NAHIN KAHENGE. Braahman Brahma mukhvamshavali hai. Brahma Shiv ki mukhvamshavali nahin hai. Shivbaba to aakar inmey pravesh karte hain, apnaa banaate hain. Yah bhi creation hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Vishnu ko nahin rachte. Gaayaa bhi jata hai Brahma Vishnu aur Shankar. Vishnu Shankar aur Brahma nahin gaayaa jaataa hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Brahma ka occupation hee alag hai. Harek baath samajhney ki hai. INKO TWAMEVA MAATAA PITAA TWAMEVA KAHA JATA HAI. To vah niraakaar hai na. To sakar may maatpitaa chahiye. Tab to poochte hain Mamma ko Maa hai? Kahenge haan. Brahma Mamma ki bhi Maa hai. Brahma ke koyi Maa nahin. YAH MAA FEMALE NA HONEY KAARAN MAATAA ROOP MAY MAMMA CHAHIYE. To Brahma ki putri Saraswati hai. BRAHMA KHUD MAA HOTE HUYE BHI SARASWATI KO MAMMA KAHTE HAIN. Baap padhate hain to yah bhi padhte hain. Jaise tum student ho, vaise yah hai. Shivbaba koyi student nahin hai. Sabhi samjhenge aur Brahma ka martabaa dekh bhi rahe ho ki yah sabsey jaasti padhtaa hai. Dekhte ho barobar nazdeek hai. Pahley kiske kaan sunte hain? Yah Brahma nazdeek hai to kahenge Mamma Baba jaasti padhte hain. Phir numberwaar sabhi bachche padhte hain. Bhale hee Baba kahte ki Jagadeesh bachchaa Mamma Baba se achchaa samajhtaa hai.Baba ki murli padhkar dhaaran kar phir Gita magazine aadi banata hai. Kyonki yah shaastr padhaa huvaa hai. Angrezi may bhi koshiyaar hai. To isko kaha jata hai regard. Student ko ek do ka regard rakhna hai. Baba bhi to regard rakhte hain na. Father ko follow karna chahiye. Bhale hee abhi 16 kala sampoorn to nahin baney hain, numberwaar to hote hee hai na. Koyi na koyi bhooley to sabsey hoti rahti hai. Isliye apney ko miyaa mittu na samajhnaa hai. Jaise karm Baap karte hain main karoongaa. Vah sab mukje dekh karege. Aur regard ek do ko rakhna hai. Baba ko bhi regard rakhna padtaa hai. -53 [hoshiyaar, maatpita, number one]

= ......Even though Brahma himself is Mother, he calls Saraswathi (daughter) as Mother......

23)Grand mother too is present!:-

SM 9-10-83(3):- Murli dt. 19.10.78:- Great 2 grand Father yah title ho gaya Prajapita Brahma ka. Jaroor grand Mother, grand children bhi honge. Tum bachchon ko yah sab samjhaanaa hai. -10- [Prajapita, GGGF]

= GGGF(Great2 Grand father) is the title of Prajapita Brahma. Definitely, there would be Grand Mother as well as Grand Children. You children have to explain all these.

[Mostly- Grand Mother is said to Brahma Baba himself -as he is both father and mother. But, can be said to Mamma as well- as Baba says- even though Brahma is also mother, practically, the title mother goes to the smaller Mother (Mamma). ]. - Also see- in rare cases Shivbaba uses same word differently as per his dance of knowledge. [Eg- Posts No. 62, 63, 68 and 69]- and post No. 178
Last edited by mbbhat on Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:46 pm, edited 12 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 08) Continuation:-

24)Maatpita in combined form:-

a)This is said just to Brahma Baba himself. Eg- Put in "Post No. 60) Adam = Eve". It is said maatpita is said just to one.

b)Shivbaba in B Baba:- Baba says- Maatpita Bapdada are combined/together

c)Even just incorporeal father is maatpita in combined as HE HIMSELF is both FATHER and MOTHER. But, Shivbaba becomes Mother and father only when he incarnates. So I believe when Shivbaba says Mother and father are combined, most of the cases, it will be only a) and b), not c).

25)Incognito Mother Prajapita Brahma:-

Many times Baba says- "this mother (B Baba) is incognito." Actually, Lekhraj Kirpalani is Bull(Corporeal Father, Prajapita) as well as (Big) Cow(Senior Mother). So, Lekhraj Kirpalani plays role of both Father(Prajapita) and Mother(Jagadamba). But practically, title of mother(Jagadamba) goes to junior mother(Mama) as mothers are kept ahead, and it is she who has been head of Yagya for service matters. And, it is Mamma who used to move to gali2 to give knowledge. B Baba cannot move gali2 to give knowledge. So, IN YAADGAAR/MEMORIAL, Lekhraj Kirpalani gets just place of Bull (Father) and Mama gets place as Jagadamba(cow= gowmukh). Mama used to give her own class as well as clarification on what Baba had spoken earlier. In Bhaktimarg, no one believes Prajapita/Brahma as Mother nor he is praised with the title god of knowledge. That is why Baba says- "sooth hee moonjhaa huvaa hai"= the root itself is confused.

Also- Baba says- "there are two unlimited fathers[ShivBaba and B Baba] and two unlimited mothers[B Baba and Mama]". So- both B Baba and Mama are cows. But B Baba as Mother is gupt, not understood in lowkik, nor praised as god of knowledge- (due to name Krishna put in Gita), - Jagadamba Saraswathi alone is praised as cow (goddess of knowledge) in Bhaktimarg.

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Last edited by mbbhat on Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:33 am, edited 6 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
# Post 09) More about Trimurti:-

Even in Trimurti, points, we can see there- the aim of Shivbaba is to prove Alaf and Bey (Father, his incarnation and the property).

Without Brahma, Shiv's incarnation (hence creation or transformation or purification) cannot be proved easily. Vishnu is the property. And there would be destruction. Hence and since the name trimurti is famous, Baba used those pictures for service.

SM 29-11-77(1, 2):- Baba ne samjhaayaa hai trimurti Shiv jayanti kahnaa hai. Sirf Shiv jayanti nahin. Trimurti Shiv ki jayanti theek hai. Is baari likhenge apni 42vi Shiv jayanti manaa rahe hain. BRAHMA BIGAR SHIV KAISE JANM LENGE? ISLIYE TRIMURTI SHIV RIGHT AKSHAR HAI. Brahma dwara humko varsaa dete hain. SHIVBABA HAI TOH VARSAA BHI SAATH MAY ZAROOR CHAHIYE. Toh yah Vishnu hai varsa. Brahma vaa Vishnu vaa Shiv toh vinaash nahin karenge. SHANKAR DWAARAA VINAASH GAAYAA HUVAA HAI. ISLIYE TRIMURTI KA CHITR HAI MUKHY. Trimurti chitr chalaa aayaa hai. Vahaan bhi tum raajy karte ho toh takht ke pichaadi Vishnu kaa chitr rahtaa hai. Yah jaise court of arms hai. Inkaa arth duniyaa ke manushy nahin samajh sakte. -128-, 129

= Baba has explained that it is correct to say trimurti shiv jayanti. Not just shiv jayanti. Jayanti of trimurti shiv is right. This time (we) write 42nd shiv jayanti is being celebrated. WITHOUT BRAHMA HOW CAN SHIV GET BIRTH? HENCE TRIMUTRI SHIV IS RIGHT WORD. (Shiv) gives property through Brahma. WHEN THERE IS SHIVBABA, EVEN THE PROPERTY ALSO SHOULD BE TOGETHER. SO THIS VISHNU IS THE PROPERTY. Brahma, Vishnu or Shiv will not do destruction. It is said- Destruction through Shankar. Hence trimurti picture is important. Trimurti picture has come from long before(or is famous). Even there(Satyug) when you rule Kingdom, picture of Vishnu will be backside of the throne. This is like court of arms. People of the world cannot understand meaning of these.

SM 30-1-82(1):- Sirf shiv nahin. Trimurti to zaroor ho. KYONKI SIDDH KARNAA HAI BRAHMA DWARA STHAAPNAA. -38

= Not just Shiv Jayanti. There should be trimurti. Because there is need to prove the creation through brahma.
# Post No. 9b)What is right picture of Trimurti?

SM 20-4-89(1):- Oonche te oonch hai ShivBaba. Phir oonch te oonch hai Vishnu ka raajy. Yah Trimurti jo dikhaya hai- usmey hona chahiye Brahma Vishnu aur Shiv NA KI Shankar. Parantu baaju may Shiv ko kaise rakhen? To phir Shankar ko rakh diya hai. Aur Shiv ko oopar may rakha hai. Usmey shobha achchi hoti hai. Sirf do(=two) shobha nahin dete. Shankar ki mala nahin kahenge. Brahma, Vishnu aur Rudr Mala; Bas. Shobha ke liye Bhakti may kitney chitr banaye hain. Parantu gyaan kuch bhi nahin hai. Tum jo chitr banate ho unki pahchaan deni hai to manushy samajh jaaye. Nahin to Shiv Shankar ko mila dete hain. – 154

=Highest of High is ShivBaba. Next highest is Kingdom of Vishnu. In this Trimurti shown, it should be Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv, NOT Shankar. But how can Shiv be placed at side (below)? So Shankar is placed (there) and Shiv is placed at the top. That looks good. Just two (at below even if Shiv is placed at top) does not look good. It cannot/is be said Mala of Shankar. Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra Mala, that’s all. In Bhakti, for good appearance many pictures are done. But there is no knowledge at all. You should give/explain introduction/meaning of the picture what you do. Else (they) will mix Shiv and Shankar.

We can see here also- Baba's aim is Father and property (Alaf and Bey)
Last edited by mbbhat on Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.

Posts: 2501
Link with BKs: BK
# Post No. 10) Farukkhaabaadvaaley maalik ko maante hain= those who live in farukkhaabad believe in maalik (master= owner)

1)SM 17-12-82(1):- BHAGAVAAN KO RUDR BHI KAHA JATA HAI. Krishn ko rudr nahin kahenge. Rudr gyaan yagy se hee vinaash jwala nikli hai. POINTS PAKADNI HAI SAMJHAANE KE LIYE. UNKO ANEK NAAM SE BULAATE HAIN. FARUKAABAAD MAY EK PANTH HAI JO “EK MAALIK” KAHTE HAIN. KAHTE HAIN US MAALIK KAA NAAM NAHIN HAI. ACHCHAA VAH MAALIK KAHAA KAA HAI? KYAA VISHW KAA? SAARE SRSUHTI KAA MAALIK HAI? ?Hum kahte hain Parampita Parmatama srushti ka maalik hai nahin. Srishti kaa maalik to devi devtaayein bante hain. Parampita Parmatama hai brahmaand kaa maalik. So to tum hum bhi maalik hain. Brahm tatw Baap ka ghar so hum bachchon ka ghar hai. Brahmaand hai Baap kaa ghar jahaan aatmaayein andey misal dikhlaate hain. Aise koyi hai nahin. Hum aatmaayein jyotibindu vahaan nivaas karti hain. -126-

= Bhagavaan is also called as Rudr. Krishn is not called as Rudr. From rudr gyaan yagy, the fire of destruction has come out. You should gather points to explain. He is called by many names. In Farukkaabad, there is a group who say "One maalik/master" . They say- that maalik has no name. Good, He is maalik of what/where? Of the world? Of the whole creation? We say- Parampita Param atma is not maalik of the creation/srushti. The maalik of the creation/srushti are deities. PP is maalik of brahmaand (Incorporeal world). so- even you also are maalik of that. The house of Father is also that of children. there, the souls are shown like eggs. (But actually) it is not so. We souls point of lights reside there.

2)SM 12-1-83(2):- Vah log kahte hain Parmatama vishw ka maalik hai. JAISE FARUKKAABAADVAALEY KAHTE HAIN HUM US MAALIK KO YAAD KARTE HAIN. Parantu vaastav may Vishw ka athva sruhti kaa maalik to LN bante hain. Niraakaar ShivBaba toh vishw kaa maalik bante nahin. TOH UNHON_SEY POOCHNAA PADEY KI MAALIK NIRAAKAAR HAI YAA SAAKAAR HAI. Niraakaar toh Sakar srushti ka malik ho na sakey. Vah hai brahmaand kaa maalik. Vahi akar patit duniyaa ko paavan banaate hain. -15

= They say Supreme Soul is maalik/owner of the (physical) world. Like the Farukkaabad people say- we remember that maalik. But actually, LN become maalik of World. Incorporeal ShivBaba does not become maalik of the world. so- you ask them- Is maalik corporeal or incorporeal. Incorporeal cannot be maalik of corporeal creation. He is maalik of brahmaand (IW). He is the one who comes and transforms the impure world into pure.

In these, Baba gives hints to children - how to explain to that group. Because that group believes in maalik. But they might be thinking that "god is maalik of corporeal creation." so- Baba says- you can tell them that actually it is LN and deities who become malik of CW (Corporeal World) and that incorporeal maalik is the one who purifies it. In this way, you can explain The Knowledge easily to them.

Similarly Baba uses many examples of Bhaktimarg songs, pictures, names, beliefs, sayings, etc to explain his incarnation, and The Knowledge of Time cycle.

Baba uses the word Rudr gyaan yagy and in yagy , there should be braahmins (as per lowkik belief also it is braahmins who take care of Yagya).

There is belief in lowkik world that- braahimns were created by mukh (mouth) of Brahma. Also it is said in scriptures that- till a braahimn child gets his upanayan (a ritual where the set of three threads is put on him and brahmopadesh- knowledge is imparted to him), there is no difference between a braahimn child or Shudra child.

Now, how can lowkik braahmins can be called as mouth born? They just say it. One one hand they believe braahmins are created from mouth of Brahma. And- they believe that till upanayan ritual(say like baptisisation in Christanity), even a braahmin lowkik child is not fit to be called as braahmin. So- even though they believe that it is the knowledge that makes a person braahmin, they cannot explain when knowledge came from mouth of Brahma. [Title Goddess of knowledge is given to Saraswati, but title God of knowledge has been slipped from Brahma and put on Krishna due to insertion of name of Krishna in Gita].

So- Baba explains how the creation actually happens by knowledge which comes through mouth of Brahma which is actually from the Shiva sitting inside, the yaadgaar of nandi bull in temple of Shiva, etc, etc.

3)One more example, how baba uses the bhakti concept to explain gyaan:-

SM 25-3-78(2, 3):- Yahaan to nirakar baap baith gyaan dete hain. Vah kabhi gruhasth may aate nahin. Sadaa pavitr hain. Krishn to maataa ke garbh se niklaa. To unko pait pavan kaise kahenge? Abhi tum bachche jaante ho PARAMPITA PARAMATMA ko Prajapita Brahma ke tan may hee aanaa hai. Prajapita to zaroor yahaan hee hona chahiye na. ISLIYE INKAA NAAM BRAHMA RAKH KAHTE HAIN MAIN IS SAADHAARAN TAN MAY PRAVESH KARTAA HUN. YAH 84 JANM BHOG ABHI ANTIM JANM MAY HAIN AUR VAANAPRASTH AVASTHAA MAY POORAA ANUBHAVI RATHA HAI. ARJUN KE LIYE BHI KAHTE HAIN NA BAHUT GURU KIYE THEY. SHAASTR AADI PADHE THEY. TO SAMJHAANAA BHI AISAY CHAHIYE PRAJAPITA BRAHMA KA KABHI NAAM SUNAA HAI? Brahma to zaroor pahle braahman rachenge. …

= ....Now you children know that Supreme Soul should enter in Prajapita Brahma himself. Prajapita should be here only, is it not. Hence (I) keep the name of this as Brahma and say, I enter in this ordinary body. This one is fully experienced one who has taken 84 births and is in retired stage. EVEN FOR ARJUN, IT IS SAID HE HAD MANY GURUS. HE HAD READ SCRIPTURES. SO YOU SHOULD EXPLAIN IN THIS WAY-LIKE- HAVE YOU EVER HEARD NAME OF PRAJAPITA BRAHMA? Brahma will definitely first create braahmins.
Last edited by mbbhat on Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Murli Pt:- Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai. Mamma toh gambheerataa kee devi thi. = The virtue seriousness gives full marks. Mamma was a deity of seriousness.


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